Thread: Foreign babies?
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Old 08-04-2006
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Default Clarifications down here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cesare
You called it the XM-231/A1 "Commando" pistol, but now youre saying it is no suffix? Actually what i meant by that i couldnt find it before was the name XM231. But if you say the GSE-commando was called XM231 i believe you. I just saw that there was a post (here) from GSE, if it was sent in by them it is beyond any doubt. The name míght be refering to the colt XM231 port firing weapon? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_M231_FPW) And i give you right that probably is a XM231 with or without the -A1or M2 parts ... Whatever, this starts to be going in circles.

I have made some mistakes in identifying the models. Read down below CAREFULLY, and hope I will clarify your doubts.

The COLT M231-FPW "Firing Port Weapon" is one thing. The GSE XM-231 "Commando" pistols series is another.

GUNSMOKE ENTERPRISES, Inc. started the manufacture of the weapon you mistakenly call "XM23A1" BEFORE the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban. And back then, it was called the XM231-A1 "Commando" pistol.
Now that the AWB has expired, GUNSMOKE ENTERPRISES has restarted the manufacture of that series of pistols. Only with different names. The pistol formerly known as the "XM231-A1 Commando" is now called "XM-231 Standard A2 model Commando pistol", and is recognized for have no fixed sights, replaced by a top Weaver rail for NATO-standard optic sights.



Another pistol being part of the XM-231 series are the "XM-231 Standard A1 model Commando" pistol (which has fixed sights and a non-removable M16-style carrying handle), and which was previously known as the XM-231S.



The "XM-231 Standard A3 model Commando pistol" is similar to the A2 model, but has full rail handguard.



Different again is the "XM-231 Standard A3 model Tactical pistol", with different tactical rails and folding sights.



There also is another pistol (to which picture I only add a link because I can link only to 4 images overall) which GSE calls "XM-231 Standard A3 model Tactical pistol with full lenght quad rail handguard", and which also has a longer barrel.

We seem to be talking past each other. Also since there are many loose threads here. Please comment the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cesare
#1 In your post here the top pic clearly differs from the bottom. Dont you agree? You mean they are both M16X? The top pic has a removable carryhandle, the one at the bottom is an older style fixed. The buttstock (easy to change I admit that, really looks like a Diemaco)

Yes, them are both M16-X. The only difference between one another is the UPPER RECEIVER. As you can see here, M2 Corp. mostly manufactures and sells its subcarbines in form of UPPER RECEIVERS ONLY, which can be mounted on any AR15/M16/M4 lower receiver. The upper receivers alone do not make a military or civilian weapon: them can be attached to a semiauto-only lower and make a civilian selfloading rifle; or be mounted on selective-fire lowers and make out military/police weapons. The lower picture is clearly an M16-X that is ENTIRELY made by M2 Corporation (even the LOWER RECEIVER of that particular one is made by M2). The upper one is an M16-X receiver of NEW MANUFACTURE, made to satisfy the needs of Special Applications units, and which has been seen many times at the SHOT Shows of the past years. THAT particular receiver has a removable carrying handle protecting a tactical sights rail, and an INTEGRALLY sound-suppressed barrel. The difference between the two upper receivers is that the non-suppressed one might be more easily legal for civilian use than the suppressed one (at least in some places/States/countries). But UNDOUBTABLY, them are two M16-X. The only difference between the two is that one is a standard model the other is a tactical-rails model with integrally-suppressed barrel.
As for the stock, everybody can make stocks of different kinds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cesare
#2 Dont you agree that the CASR thumb REALLY (including silencer) look like the one in your post?

Hehe, I thought I had been clear, let me rephrase: the Canadians were originally looking at the M2 CORP. M16-X as a possible PDW. DIEMACO has took the "Diemaco PDW" project from the M16-X.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cesare
#3 Can we agree that Sabre Defence is UK-based (originally)?

I have been "following" the SABRE DEFENCE INDUSTRIES LLC. since 2002/2003, when they launched the XR16-PDW (there should be a picture of it somewhere in the gallery, otherwise I will post one), and them have always been an US-based company; them are the old RAMO DEFENSE SYSTEMS INC., whose products included sniper rifles
(such models are now being made by AURORA TACTICAL GROUP), and an US-based license assembly line for the Daewoo USAS-12 shotgun. RAMO was also an US Defence contractor for Browning M2 50-BMG machineguns barrels, and SABRE has releaved the contract, providing M2 barrels for the US Army.
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