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  #1  
Old 11-25-2007
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Default Why the gun is civilization (Great Read)

Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force. The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gangbanger, and a single gay guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat--it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed. People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser. People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level. The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weightlifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation...and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

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Old 11-26-2007
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Angry Some bad, BAD news from down here.

Sorry if I hijack the thread, Dolphin, but the thing is extremely important. Here in Italy, we have been in great agitation lately.

I am extremely busy about it for the magazine, so I can not get in details, but after a shooting that happened in a city near Rome called Guidonia last 11/2, when a crazed former Army sniper has killed one and wounded nine, the Italian Ministry of Interior has submitted to the Parliament a law proposal which, should it be passed, would simply mean the end of almost everything. All gun licenses would be sectorialized, with only CCW holders allowed to purchase, possess and carry all kinds of firearms available on the civilian market; the holders of Sporting and Hunting licenses could only purchase and carry to shooting ranges the firearms purported to such sports, while the purchase of other kind of guns would be subdued to a further Police authorization. It would crack the range shooters community, the IPSC shooters, the collectors, the market of handguns, complicate bureaucracy and red tape to go through, and dump ALL costs for its enforcement on the citizens, since the law states that "No expense must be charged to the State for the enforcement of this law"; this meaning that whatever will be necessary to put it into effectiveness, it will have to be paid by the citizens, probably through the introduction of extremely high taxes on ALL Gun licenses, including on the sporting licenses which are currently free of charge. Whoever applies for a gun license should go through an evaluation by a commission of three psychiatrists, which the law states won't deserve any payment for this service, this meaning that they could simply refuse to provide the service, de facto blocking all issue of gun licenses.

We are all wondering what could have led to this. The Italian firearms law is between the best in the world, ensuring both liberal access to guns by whoever has the requirements, and Governmental control on legally-owned guns. Firearms don't represent a political or social issue here, neither the shooting in Guidonia, which namely has triggered this law proposal, has caused any major turmoil between the political world the public opinion.
My guess (well... our guess) is that this law proposal is the realization of a plan that's ready since a long time; and personally I suspect a certain functionary of the Ministry of Interior, the director of the Firearms and Explosives Branch, which has never hidden his anti-gun tendences. Luckily, whoever wrote the law, never minded to the fact that several points in it are severely unconstitutional, so at least we have a hope. There's some big Left wing/Right wing agreement behind this one, anyway, and the thing is backed by powerful bureaucrats. So pray for us, if you are a believer. Really.
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Last edited by PT-The Italian Commie : 11-26-2007 at 04:45 AM.
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Old 11-26-2007
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Default So PT, question

Both the left wing and right wing are in agreement? Sounds like our 2008 election when it comes to guns, both side's are wanting to screw us.Either way we are screwed.Sounds like now is the time to buy!
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Old 11-26-2007
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Default Re: Why the gun is civilization (Great Read)

One thing is for sure. No matter what side of the spectum they are on, politicians don't want us to own firearms.
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Old 11-27-2007
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The thing is a bit more complicated, but yes, if this thing is going to pass, it's because there will be a Left/Right agreement on this. We still have our hopes to stop it, BTW...

Well, the fact is that this law has surely been written NOT by a politician, but by a bureaucrat, who's in charge for the Firearms and Explosives Branch of the Italian Ministry of Interior; this bureaucrat has never made mystery of his anti-gun agenda, and had already written a similar law that had been rejected by the Parliament. And the problem is, in Italy, it's the bureaucrats who have the real power.

"Now the time to buy"? Wish it was! If this law comes into effect...

Well, let's stop talking about this, okay? I will keep you informed, but this thing is already fixed in my mind since when I received the DEFCON-1 call from my Editor-In-Chief, and the sole thought is driving me nuts. Please help me keep my pantyhose on. Just tell me how do I get American citizenship.

Because one thing is sure: if this thing pass, I am NOT voting for them anymore. ANY of them. I'll let this place go to ruins as long as it will take to me to leave the Country and move to Switzerland, or maybe the US. There are LOTS AND LOTS of things that plague my Country and that the Government, the Parliament and the Politicians should face first: loss of money value, unemployment, low paychecks, unefficience of the National Health System and of the Welfare state in general... but they DON'T WANT to face them. Because they are hand in pocket with whoever gains enormous amounts of public €€€ from this tremendous state of ruin. So they turn on something that will put them under the spotlight long enough to find somebody else that will vote for them next time. Like guns. Fact is that here in Italy guns are NOT seen publicly as a problem or a menace. They could as well leave the gun owners alone. Them don't represent a problem. So, they either have a longtime-hidden anti-gun agenda, or they WANT to make them look like an issue and a liability so to claim that they have "solved" it.

How did Joseph Goebbels said? "A lie repeated thousands of times becomes a great truth"... but in this case, there isn't even an anti-gun campaign going on! And they are sure that they can screw the gun owners without getting a reaction because the Italian citizen is notoriously used to get screwed without react, since the Middle Ages at least. Italy is the Country of "Hail France, Hail Spain, all we need is to eat!", so I don't really expect the public opinion, not the gun owners themselves, to stand for their rights if somebody don't spurs them to.

And maybe that "somebody" is going to be me... s**t, am I going to be the Italian gun owners' Che Guevara?
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"It is criminal to teach a man not to defend himself, when he is the constant victim of brutal attacks. It is legal and lawful to own a shotgun or a rifle. We believe in obeying the law." -- Malcolm X

"We (atheists) act in good conscience because we believe in moral principles, not because we expect a reward in Heaven." -- Margherita Hack


Last edited by PT-The Italian Commie : 11-27-2007 at 04:45 AM.
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Old 11-27-2007
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Default Re: Why the gun is civilization (Great Read)

It infuriates me. And I know that as soon as this "North American Union" bullshit is passed, they'll want to restrict our ownership to be on the same level as Mexico and Canada. Because I know damned well, neither of their governments will give them more rights to be on level with us. This shit is so depressing.
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Old 11-27-2007
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Default Re: Why the gun is civilization (Great Read)

Remeber PT, you're a writer. You can use your pen to smear this fascist all over the gun world and use your magazine to inform gun owners of his agenda.
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Old 11-27-2007
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Default A word of advice

If you do come into the US you might want to enter through Mexico get a really good Tan and grow a mustache, learn spanish ,You'll have everything given to you on a silver platter.We'll call you "Pedro Tendandas."
After you cross the border one of us might pick you up if you promise a triple blood oath on your mothers grave not to talk politics at all.If you see some guy walking naked hunting coyotes in the desert that would be me.I'll hook you up with a ride, as long as you promise not to grab my junk ( I know how you europeon's are.TJ might let you hide out in his garden shed as long as you do yard work for him and clean his pool..he might even toss your a burrito once and awhile..
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Old 11-28-2007
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Default Re: Why the gun is civilization (Great Read)

I'm all for a North American Union.

The Pax Americana way.

o
The United States, Canada and Mexico can be one big entity if Canada and Mexico will agree to drop their silly currencies and adopt the US Dollar. Surrender all state assets to the Government of the United States, specifically the new Department of Empire. Submit to a govonor selected by the President of the United States, place their entire militaries under the direct command of the US Department of Empire. Adopt US weapons, practices and standards across the board. Trade openly with the United States and refuse to trade with those we sanction.

Illegal immigration will end with the clear understanding the Mexican and Canadian citizens are allowed to travel into the United States both for pleasure and also work, but may not vote, use entitlement programs or recieve free education or medical benefits. They must all carry valid Mexican or Canadian passports (which will be required to meet strict US standards), must use a Imperial Worker Identification Number in order to work in the United States, and must be granted an Imperial Worker drivers license and insurance in order to operate a motor vehicle. Serfs who fail to obey these rules will be subject to immediate deportation to their country of origin and being biometrically banned from reentering the United States. Imperial serfs who commit misdemeanors worse than a traffic violation three times will be subject to the same rule. Serfs who commit felonies in the United States are subject to US Law and will not be returned to their home country until the criminal process is complete and any social debts repaid.

The US border? Still sealed... Fortified might be a better word. Basically I want the entire US Northern and Southern borders to look like the Korean DMZ on steroids within two years. 12' razor wire fence, 100 yard space, 8' concrete wall, 300 yard space and minefield, tank trap trences, tunnel bars, 12' concrete wall topped with machinegun nests and sensor arrays. These walls will be manned by the National Guard at first but later the Organized Militia, a group we should create made up of all able body males, who will have been trained in the last 6 months of highschool and will serve for one year after highschool. Border checkpoints will be large and strictly controlled, Mexican and Canadians crossing into the United States will be subject to biometric checks based on their passports.

In the event of war the governments and military forces of Canada and Mexico would be expected to fully back the United States, no matter what the fuck we ask of them. They will obey our orders, period.



And what's in it for them? A lot, actually. First off trade bonuses with the United States and a great deal of access to American technological innovations (within limits, of course). Access to most of our general issue military gear for their armed forces. Asistance from the United States in training their militaries near our standards of excellence, (especially needed for the Mexican military). At times we might even offer free upgrades for things like their jet fighter units, which they desperately need. They both get complete gurantees of military protection, any attack on either one, as American Imperial Assets, would be considered a direct attack on the United States. This is especially important for Canada which is facing all time record levels of threats from Russia.

Both nations, but especially Mexico would benefit from their people being able to freely work with, and in the United States, provided our own unemployment level remains below 5%. And if we need the labor we might even offer incentives for workers to come here... Provided they obey the rules.

And lastly, they would both get a cut of access to our other Imperial assets, such as the American Middle East Corridor, which could prove vital to them in the future.

Lastly, by incorporating Panama into this American Imperial Alliance at a slightly later date, we would control the entire fucking continent and almost all traffic directly to and from the Atlantic to the Pacific.

Economically, we would make the EU look like a joke, Russia would look like a an anorexic teddy bear and China would be fucked up the ying-yang. Industry... Between Canadas resources, America's engineering and hard industry might, and Mexicos workforce, we could out produce the rest of the planet put together. Militarily... Who are we fucking kidding? Between the United States naval and air dominance and a massive reserve of Imperial Grunts for ground pounders, we could beat the crap out of the other three world powers in a matter of weeks without even trying.



That's the kind of North American Union that should exist.

As far as I'm concerned, it's the only one that will.
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Last edited by UZI4U : 11-28-2007 at 02:00 AM.
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Old 11-28-2007
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I don't really think that there will ever be -any- North American Union. And if it will, then it'll probably be nothing more than an enlarged NAFTA, something only economical, not political. Mexico is way too corrupt to be allowed entrance, and the British Commonwealth will never surrender Canada to the American rebels...
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