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  #1  
Old 09-06-2006
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Default Mexican Assault Rifle

Post for big part stollen to our friend REMOV, thanks to him:

Mexican 5,56mm assault rifle called FX-05 "Xicoatl" (Fire Snake) and most obviously based on the german G36.
This rifle is 100% Mexican. If it has external similarities to HK designs, well 20 years of manufacturing HK in Mexico must leave some form of influence. Internally it is different from HK. There is no license from HK, and the German machinery for manufacturing that was purchased, is not from HK. The FX-05 is ergonomically designed to fit the average Mexican sodier. Its designers are Mexican and members of the SEDENA.

http://esp.mexico.com/lapalabra/una/...as-y-permisos- (infos in Spanish language)





Notice new, strengthened butt-stock and flat-top upper receiver with cocking handle on either side (similar to the SCAR).

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/3230/escanear0zn.jpg
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  #2  
Old 09-06-2006
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PT-The Italian Commie PT-The Italian Commie is offline
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Cool Whoa.

So appearently the G-36 (and its derivatives) -IS- the assault rifle for the near future. Americans think twice before shelving the XM8...

I have to appoint anyway that the Mexicans did a good job. What's the manufacturer, and where could I find further informations about this rifle?
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  #3  
Old 09-06-2006
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Exclamation

Here the "logged" link of a Mexican forum with some posts about this rifle:

http://www.getphpbb.com/phpbb/viewfo...f=1&mforum=maf
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  #4  
Old 09-06-2006
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So that's what they've been firing at the US border patrol to help aid drug smugglers across our borders.
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  #5  
Old 09-06-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PT-The Italian Commie
So appearently the G-36 (and its derivatives) -IS- the assault rifle for the near future.

Just like teh FAL was the assault rifle of the world for a long time... Didn't make it the best rifle, just the most popular.

Quote:
Americans think twice before shelving the XM8...

The XM-8 is junk. It doesn't even have any 1913 rails for g-ds sake. We aren't adopting anything that doesn't meet basic military spec.

Any new American rifle would either be based on the SCAR or built ground-up for caseless ammo.
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Old 09-06-2006
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Roger already mentioned it but i thought id post it anyway the manufacturer is SEDENA (Secretaria De La Defensa Nacional)
The FX-05 will probably soon appear here among the other nationally manufactured products.
offically they declared the 31st of July this year that the FX-05 started to be manufactured and is supposed (some time in the future to become standard). The 16th there will be a military parade where the rifle will be shown, probably then further information and pictures will be avaiable.

The Mexican Army's estimated smallarms total (open source intelligence report) 2006
42,502 pistolas, mainly locally manufactured versions of HK P7 (minor diffrences)
230,618 Assualt-rifles such as FN FAL, HK G3 and FX-05
19,225 (other) Rifles and Carbines
1,521 Shotguns
6,393 Machineguns HK21, Browning, M60
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  #7  
Old 09-06-2006
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Default Don't worry

Even if it's any good, you can be sure that the Mexicans will be too lazy to support or maintain it properly.
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Old 09-07-2006
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Default We didn't need the XM8... I personally don't think we need the SCAR.

I kind of would've LIKED to see a G36-based weapon to replace the M16, because there's no denying how reliable the AR-18 system is compared to the AR-15. But it's not needed.

The SCAR really isn't /needed/, it's just nice to have since it's better than an M4.



The generation of weapons that all these 5.56mm weapons belong to is close to being history already. I say we keep what we have until caseless (hopefully even better than the Crye MR-C) comes along.

Except I do see how a .45 ACP pistol makes sense. The M9 can't fire 9x19mm NATO submachinegun rounds safely, so it sure as hell isn't simplifying ammunition supply.
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Old 09-07-2006
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I'm not holding my breath for caseless anytime soon in a standard infantry weapon, too many problems and not enough benefits. I'd give it 2 decades before something truly revolutionary comes out of caseless that we have to have. There are other, better applications for caseless in other systems... systems that receive more detailed shot-to-shot maintenance than an infantry rifle. Knock out all the bugs THERE, then bring it down to infantry rifles. So far the expense doesn't even come close to matching the benefit. And also, just food for thought, the improved hit probabilities the G11 had have been largely matched by using red dot sights on regular weapons. Methinks the G11's sighting system was far more important to its performance than the expensive mechanism. In which case, continue experimenting with caseless until something really significant comes out of it. I'm pretty sure there is going to be a way to make caseless mechanisms reliable, accurate, safe, AND competitively priced all at the same time. It's just not there yet. And having it just to have it... meh.

Til then I think we need to switch all 5.56 NATO and 7.62 NATO for 6.5 Grendel. Then I'd build up a caseless round around the more optimal 6-7mm range of bullets, instead of going even smaller than 5.56 like the G11 did. The 6.5 Grendel seems to suggest that rifle munitions below .50 BMG could all be consolidated into a single caliber. If that's possible (and it's obviously a huge advantage) then work on the new caseless rifle/carbine/dmr/saw/mg from that persepective.
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Old 09-08-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCoyote
I'm not holding my breath for caseless anytime soon in a standard infantry weapon, too many problems and not enough benefits.

I consider a 50% weight reduction enough benefit.

Quote:
I'd give it 2 decades before something truly revolutionary comes out of caseless that we have to have.

One decade, but maybe two before it is in full service.

Quote:
There are other, better applications for caseless in other systems... systems that receive more detailed shot-to-shot maintenance than an infantry rifle. Knock out all the bugs THERE, then bring it down to infantry rifles. So far the expense doesn't even come close to matching the benefit. And also, just food for thought, the improved hit probabilities the G11 had have been largely matched by using red dot sights on regular weapons.

Not really true... The number of accurate shots taken are improved with red dot sights. The number of hits on target per accurate shot are improved by salvo bursts. Totally different things. If you combined red dots with salvo bursts, you add both of their improvments to steel on target.

Quote:
Methinks the G11's sighting system was far more important to its performance than the expensive mechanism.

Not really... Simple fact: With sights and all other things equal, if for every single well made shot with an M16 you get one hit, then with an equally well made G11 shot, you get three hits.

Better sights only improve on this, they are not the cause of it.


Quote:
In which case, continue experimenting with caseless until something really significant comes out of it. I'm pretty sure there is going to be a way to make caseless mechanisms reliable, accurate, safe, AND competitively priced all at the same time.

We already have the reliable, accurate and safe parts... Who cared about price anyway? This is America damnit, if we're spending $100 million on a single fighter jet, then we can pay $2000 for a rifle.

Quote:
Til then I think we need to switch all 5.56 NATO and 7.62 NATO for 6.5 Grendel. Then I'd build up a caseless round around the more optimal 6-7mm range of bullets, instead of going even smaller than 5.56 like the G11 did.

The G11 is history, and going with even smaller rounds was stupid [a lot of things about the G11 round was stupid except the chemical makeup of the propellant]. The current DARPA/Joint Military caseless small arms program actually uses a 5.56mm M855 bullet, propelled to the same velocity as a cased rifle. Change it to Mk262 and I'd feel happy with it. 6.5mm would be better, but 77grain 5.56 isn't exactly a downgrade from current weapons...

Quote:
The 6.5 Grendel seems to suggest that rifle munitions below .50 BMG could all be consolidated into a single caliber. If that's possible (and it's obviously a huge advantage) then work on the new caseless rifle/carbine/dmr/saw/mg from that persepective.

Agreed, a caseless weapon with equal cartrige performance to 6.5 Grendel would be pretty much ideal.

I'd settle for Mk262 equal, however, if it gets me twice the ammo of a regular M4/M16 sooner.

I'm not even considering the salvo burst possibilities [neither is the military, they're going for it just for weight savings].
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Last edited by UZI4U : 09-08-2006 at 12:36 AM.
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