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  #31  
Old 05-16-2006
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Default Heh

Tydee-bowl,

I don't think I've ever seen a lathe spin as fast, nor Gnome Chimpsky dissimulate as frantically as you're doing now.

You don't dispute that chemical weapons have been encountered on a number of occasions since the invasion (as you are doubtlessly aware of the elevated presence of toxic pre-cursors to Sarin and VX being found in the Tigris immediately following the invasion). You don't seem to dispute that Saddam had an active NBC weapons program. You don't seem to dispute the support Saddam gave -- technical, financial, and ideological-- to all manner of Sunni and Shi'a terrorists. You don't even seem to dispute that there were numerous explicit grounds upon which the invasion was justified in public statements by the administration. Just what do you allege was lied about?

You know-- just to give one example-- that the infamous "Mobile Labs" that the left likes to claim debunk Colin Powell's address to the UN have since been found (according to a translated document from the HALO documents captured in Iraq after the invasion) to be of undeniably suspicious nature?

See, it's like this... We know from captured documents that Iraq was playing games.

A country that produces and refines as much oil as Iraq doesn't need to produce hydrogen by fermentation in tractor-trailer trucks- it's a byproduct of the petroleum extraction and refinement process. Furthermore, producing it via fermentation in a mobile lab requires extraordinary cleanliness, not to mention expensive, custom-formulated critter-chow for whatever critters are producing your hydrogen. Hydrogen for balloons hasn't been made that way for a long time- it's much easier accomplished by pouring hydrochloric acid on zinc, which has been done since the 19th century. Obviously it would be easiest to bottle it as a petrochemical byproduct and ship it as needed to their "Weather Balloon" projects, rather than invest hundreds of millions in mobile fermentation labs...while children went without medicines, and Saddam built 45 palaces.

The mobile labs found after the invasion had no bioindicators simply because they hadn't been used for production yet- Saddam was authorizing the acquisition of mobile labs until the very brink of the invasion at a cost of nearly 33 million dollars apiece when he could probably have been-- due to Iraq's giant oil-infrastructure-- selling hydrogen at a profit to the outside world.
What's even more suspicious is that the acquisition of these mobile "Weather-Balloon Support Units" was authorized at a special meeting chaired by Saddam himself, and attended by Uday. Why would Saddam have to personally approve a superflous hydrogen-making scheme costing hundreds of millions of dollars for the purpose of observing "meteorological occurrences" on the eve of war?

Doesn't that make you suspicious, or has your brain rotted entirely?

Honestly- to me, you represent the most overheated and hyperventilating elements of the radical left, and I wish you would just flee to Europe already, and embrace your Arab masters.

And take Noam "I Love Hezbollah" Chomsky with you.
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  #32  
Old 05-16-2006
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Default Whoa!

So happy I kept myself OUTTA this all...
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  #33  
Old 05-16-2006
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Default Yup...

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So happy I kept myself OUTTA this all...

I know the topic has drifted, but I'm soooooooooooooooooooo tired of all the stupid "Bush Lied!!1!1!!one!!!" idiots. That was just begging for a slapdown.
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  #34  
Old 05-16-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Durden
I'll start looking through my DVD of 911 to see if I can find that statement. I'll be sure to pay attention the the context too. Actually to save time, why don't I just assume he said that. Can you prove he (MM) was lying?

Yes I can, Saddams Iraq gave money to terrorist groups that committed suicide bombings which resulted in American deaths. Saddams Iraq also attempted to assassinate the President of the United States [who is an American, least your forget] in a time of peace. Do I even need to mention all the times Saddams army fired on American aircraft?

Those are only the first three actions by Saddam that resulted in or attempted to result in the deaths of American[s], do you need more?

Thus, Micky Moorons statements were false, which means he's either as dumb as he looks, or more likely he's a liar, take your pick.

Quote:
While I'm doing that I'll ask you to try to prove Bush didn't lie about WMD in Iraq. There is no way to get inside Bush's head to determine if he was lying or not. Again he may have been "right" but you seemed to miss my point about the coin flip logic. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. That doesn't mean it is correct.

You don't seem to understand what 'lie' means:

lie
n.
A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
Bush made statements that there were WMDs and WMD programs in Iraq.

We have found WMDs and WMD programs in Iraq.

Thus his statements were not false, and were not falsehoods.

His state of mind has nothing to do with it, if something isn't false, then it isn't a lie.

Or do you wish to debate with the dictionary?


Quote:
Maybe even to shorten this up more, why don't you stop beating around the bush (ah...damn I'm funny) and just tell me exactly what you would like me to say and we'll go from there. Honestly, I'm not sure where you are going with this or what you are trying to prove/disprove.

Oh, you've already said what I've wanted you to say. You admitted that there is nothing we can find in Iraq that would justify the war and make you admit Bush didn't lie.

You disagree with Bush just for the sake of disagreeing with Bush, nothing more.


But I'll go ahead and post some links to proof of Saddams WMDs and WMD programs:

I'll start with Chemical weapons:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120137,00.html

"Sarin, Mustard Gas Discovered Separately in Iraq"

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120268,00.html

"Tests Confirm Sarin in Iraqi Artillery Shell"


Now let's look at Biological:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=40777


And how about an illegal nuclear research program?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3872201.stm

"The US has revealed that it removed more than 1.7 metric tons of [enriched uranium] from Iraq in a secret operation last month."


And there are more where that came from.

Saddam had WMDs, WMD labs and Nuclear research programs, as Bush claimed. Those are all illegal under the terms of the 1991 cease-fire, which allows hostilities to resume if Saddam didn't comply.

Bush said there were WMDs in Iraq, and we've found WMDs in Iraq, thus his statements were not false, and thus cannot be lies.

Last edited by UZI4U : 05-16-2006 at 02:10 PM.
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  #35  
Old 05-16-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Durden
It's a time line thing. Bush was using bad info for his excuses to go to war in Iraq.

Bad info? Seems that it turned out to be fairly accurate to me.


Quote:
He didn't know what we know now.

He knew there were WMDs in Iraq.

We found WMDs in Iraq.

Where is the problem?

Quote:
Plus he just wanted to attack Iraq way before 911 anyway.

And what proof of that do you have?

Quote:
If I tell you the stock market will be higher at the end of the week, am I a liar?

That's not an accurate analogy.

Bush made his statements based on intelligence reports from almost the entire western world [reports that have turned out to be fairly accurate, I may add].

Maybe in whatever world it is you live in, where the sky is orange and Unicorns roam in the wild, intelligence reports do not carry any weight, but back in reality they do.

Those reports are based on photographs, human intelligence [read: eye witnesses] and intercepted communications. They are not mere guesses, thus when a president makes a statement based on them, he is not lying.

By your standards, anytime any president makes a decision based on intelligence reports they would be lying.

So was Clinton lying when he said the United States was going to strike Al-Queda targets in Afghanistan back in 1998? That statment was based on intelligence reports, you know.


Quote:
I'm a liar either way because I'm presenting something I don't know to be true as the thuth. It makes no difference whether or not the future proves me right or wrong.

So Clinton was lying about those camps we struck in Afghanistan we hit, even if they turned out to be what he said they were?

Quote:
You imply that anytime somebody says something that ends up being true that they did not lie. I disagree.

So when do we send Clinton to jail?

Quote:
So to sum up:

1. We both dislike Bush

For totally different reasons. You dislike Bush because you are a jackass, I dislike Bush because he is a jackass, thus I dislike both of you for the same reason.

Quote:
2. We both admit Bush is a liar (as we all are)

Except he isn't a liar about the things you claim he is.

Quote:
3. We both think the war in Iraq was a crap idea

What LSD induced hallucination makes you think I said that? I back the invasion and liberation of Iraq all the way, our only mistake is not being aggressive enough.

Quote:
4. We both believe some WMD were found

'Lots' would be more accurate.

Quote:
Why are we still arguing? Are we going to debate the concept of a lie?

No, you're going to debate the definition of a lie, with the dictionary as your opponent, it seems.

Quote:
If you want I'll use the word deceptive. Is that agreeable?

Only if it is in reference to you and your folk-song-hero.

Last edited by UZI4U : 05-16-2006 at 04:50 PM.
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  #36  
Old 05-16-2006
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UZI4U UZI4U is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Durden
I can go on and on, you can go on and on. ....blah blah... The way BushCo presented the excuses to attack Iraq doesn't make sense to me, apparently it makes sense to you.

And that has what to do with this debate?

Quote:
At least we have the right to disagree in America, for the time being.

Yeah, until the Democrats get back in power.

Last edited by UZI4U : 05-16-2006 at 10:17 PM.
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