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  #31  
Old 08-02-2006
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PT-The Italian Commie PT-The Italian Commie is offline
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Default I really feel I have something to say.

At this point, I feel it's better for me if I put my cards on the desk.

I am -NOT- an anti-semite. I am not even an anti-Israeli, in the sense that I am -NOT- against the existence of the State of Israel. This, I clearly stated thousands and thousands of time in ways even clearlier than this. Now, I don't even believe in the existence of the Vast Conservative Zionist Conspiracy©, but it's not the first time, I repeat, that I see somebody here in Europe and there in the USA being blamed of anti-semitism because he/she criticizes the Israeli policies. If this is a subtle political move of Israel itself, which exploits the most extremist members of the Jewish communities worldwide to build around himself a "protection wall" against the criticism of the world public opinion, or if it is just the idiocy of the small-minded extremists above, I could not tell. What I -CAN- tell is that I would have never thought of entering in the sight by myself. I thought the Freedom of Speech to be valid, here.

If you want to see a REAL anti-semite, go after Mel Gibson which gets stopped by policemen for driving drunk and answers "Hey, you are acting just like a bunch of fucking juwes". You'll see or hear nothing similar from old PT here.

While I feel I have -NOTHING- (and let me repeat: NOTHING) to apologize for as far as it concerns the opinions I have expressed about the current military actions carried on by the State of Israel on the territory of the sovereign state of Lebanon, I am sincerely sorry for the bad things I have said to Bacon Guy. I did not meant to say/write them, and I regret to have done it. But I feel I have to explain how those things were, in fact, extorted to me by Bacon's behaviour itself.

I have never seen such an extremistly-conservative, reactionary, small-minded, warmonger, ignorant, chauvinist person as Bacon. I thought political beliefs like his ones to have died under the gunfire of a group of Italian partisans 60 years ago. He has the extremest depreciation not only for MY political opinions (which I could after all understand from an American), but basically for the opinions of -EVERYBODY- who does not thinks just like he does. He is fed with the hatred of the "With us or against us" and "No peace possible with the Muslims" points of view. And not one single time, I repeat, NOT ONE SINGLE TIME, I have did or written ANYTHING intended to offend him personally at the level he has done to me.
He has called me an anti-semite; and people who really knows me also know that that is enough already to SERIOUSLY piss me off. Not only because I think that calling Israel-criticizers as "anti-semites" is a very quick way to stubbornly avoid constructive criticism; but also because he accuses me to have ideas and states of mind which I refuse and strongly condemn, and which I do NOT belong to. I actually believe that Italy and Europe itself has such an enormous racism backflash nowadays because people like me was held back (mainly by the Allied forces in the spirit of " post-war reconciliation") from executing ALL the criminals which instead HAD such ideas, after World War 2.
Nonetheless, he is ALWAYS ready to blame -ME- of intolerance. How happens that I am intolerant when I say that I don't like the way Israel behaves, and HE is NOT intolerant when he says that no peace can be with Muslims, Communists, Liberals, etc., and that they should all be exterminated? Explain me, because I don't really get it.
I have called "fascist" the war tactics of Israel. Keep in mind that under the point of view of EVERYBODY worldwide EXCEPT America and Israel, the way Israel is conducting this military operation -IS- fascist.
Paradoxally, I would not have got -THAT- hungry if he would have just called an anti-semite (after all, I asked him to tell me directly if he considered me so), and if he would have called me a "cocksucker son of a bitch". No, he has called me a "son of a -WHORE-", which down here has a completely different meaning. I have already been called such, and NEVER reacted very well. Do I have to tell you about when I was 12 and I broke a bigger guy's nose because he publicly called my mother that way?

I sincerely apologize for the menaces I have made to Bacon. I want him to know that I would have never put them into practice (he wrote that guns are made for defence, not for offence, and I think I have already demonstrated so many times to share 100% this point of view). If he will cross my path one day, I'll offer him a beer.
This does not means that I will not kick his ass for calling my mother a whore.
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  #32  
Old 08-02-2006
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UZI4U UZI4U is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CeeTee
In december 1995 I was in Tiberias (Israel) for some machinery start-up and the TV was giving a strange announcement (translated by my friend Avi): Barbra Streisand offer her voice for free in a concert in TelAviv (I believe was TelAviv), but she was told to give up because a "woman cannot sing alone in public". This really happened (according to the local news). A big shame not to have a wonderful singer like her to amuse her people. In the other hand, it was her own people to ban her.
Is such a statement contemplated in the TorÓ? Or maybe the news gave a distorted version. Or, even, my friend Avi made a bad translation (he lives in Israel since he was born plus got master degree in english and german - doubt was his fault).

Just info. No polemic, really.
Tks
../ct

It's a long story.


For one thing it isn't against the law.

For another there is nothing in the Torah about it.


The thing is that the Orthodox have a great many traditions and rules that are not followed by most other Jews... To give you a comparison they're a bit like the Amish are to Christianity, except a bit less crazy and with a lot more members. They have many more traditions and rules than other Jews and among them is a rule that unmarried females must be accompinied by a male in public. The reason for this is for her 'safety' and 'honor', which isn't much different from what Europe and the United States were like in the late 1800s and early 1900s. Barbra Streisand was not married in 1995 and thus in the eyes of the Orthodox falls under this rule.


No one but the Orthodox follows this rule... I'm sure you saw that as a fact in Israel. But the Orthodox have a lot of money and thus tend to own things like stadiums, concert halls and other such things... If they think someone is going to break one of their rules they may refuse their use of a facility they own.

I respect the Orthodox a lot, they obey rules their entire lives that I couldn't live with for a day. But this rule is one I honestly disagree with. But they aren't very obsessed with it... They don't have a heart attack when they see an unmarried woman walking down the street, it's just not something they allow themselves to do or others to do in places they own.

And now you know.



I intend to ignore everything else in this thread, this debate has gone far enough.
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  #33  
Old 08-03-2006
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CeeTee CeeTee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UZI4U
It's a long story.


For one thing it isn't against the law.

For another there is nothing in the Torah about it.


The thing is that the Orthodox have a great many traditions and rules that are not followed by most other Jews... To give you a comparison they're a bit like the Amish are to Christianity, except a bit less crazy and with a lot more members. They have many more traditions and rules than other Jews and among them is a rule that unmarried females must be accompinied by a male in public. The reason for this is for her 'safety' and 'honor', which isn't much different from what Europe and the United States were like in the late 1800s and early 1900s. Barbra Streisand was not married in 1995 and thus in the eyes of the Orthodox falls under this rule.


No one but the Orthodox follows this rule... I'm sure you saw that as a fact in Israel. But the Orthodox have a lot of money and thus tend to own things like stadiums, concert halls and other such things... If they think someone is going to break one of their rules they may refuse their use of a facility they own.

I respect the Orthodox a lot, they obey rules their entire lives that I couldn't live with for a day. But this rule is one I honestly disagree with. But they aren't very obsessed with it... They don't have a heart attack when they see an unmarried woman walking down the street, it's just not something they allow themselves to do or others to do in places they own.

And now you know.


Very clarifying explanation. I'm delightely pleased.
I don't know if I'll ever be able to thank you personally, so please accept my ethanks in the meantime.


../ct
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  #34  
Old 08-03-2006
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UZI4U UZI4U is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CeeTee
Very clarifying explanation. I'm delightely pleased.
I don't know if I'll ever be able to thank you personally, so please accept my ethanks in the meantime.


../ct

You're welcome, glad to be of help.
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