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Old 12-29-2006
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Default "The Zombie Survival Guide".

Just to say...

Received THIS book as an X-Mas present from a friend; it's written by Max Brooks (son of Mel Brooks and Anne Bancroft).

What to say... I suggest you all to take a read to it, before we make another "Chairborne Commando" what-if thread about Zombie attacks.
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Old 12-29-2006
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Already saw it. It makes questionable statements about the usefulness of .22 lr as pertains to penetrating skulls.
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Old 12-30-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PT-The Italian Commie
Just to say...

Received THIS book as an X-Mas present from a friend; it's written by Max Brooks (son of Mel Brooks and Anne Bancroft).

What to say... I suggest you all to take a read to it, before we make another "Chairborne Commando" what-if thread about Zombie attacks.

I already have it. Haven't had the time to read it, however.

It isn't fiction.





















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Old 12-30-2006
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Originally Posted by JCoyote
Already saw it. It makes questionable statements about the usefulness of .22 lr as pertains to penetrating skulls.

Well, it makes questionable statements about many things, thought generally it is a good book.

First of all, it's not right that 22-LR does -NOT- penetrates a skull. You'd be surprised to hear about how much people is killed yearly here in Italy with .22 shots in the head. The .22 -WILL- penetrate your skull from a short or middle distances. The book itself says that the .22 is useful only at that distances.
And by any means, I generally disagree with the "hard-core Americans", lovers of the .45-ACP and the .7'62x51mm if not .30-06-Springfield, who discard cartridges like .9x19mm and .5'56x45mm-NATO as Zombie-killing ammunitions, claiming that them have "not enough stopping power". Here, you are not talking about a suicide bomber and you have not the necessity of an high-punch ammunition to bring him down with a single shot at the torso; Zombies don't even FEEL a torso shot. Only a headshot stops a Zombie. And as fat as .9x19mm and .5'56x45mm-NATO have the power to penetrate a skull, them are just fine for Zombie hunting as ANY OTHER cartridge that has power enough to penetrate a skull.
I also disagree with the book when it declares fully-automatic weapons useless against Zombies. True, with the head being their only weak point, you don't need to spray bullets here and there to stop them, instead that's just wasting ammunitions. But an assault rifle or a sub-machinegun, with the fire selector kept on "Semi" and equipped with a combat optic, on "Zombie combat" distances are just as good and accurate as a semi-automatic or repeating (accuracy) firearm, and provide full-automatic optional for any other needs. Plus, belt-fed machineguns like the M249-SAW (FN Minimi), M240, M60, PKM etc. are good to defend fixed positions, especially if you are shooting Zombies from above you -WILL- actually hit more heads with a machinegun if it's used well; otherwise you will dismember them, leaving them crawling slowly on the ground, even easier to kill for a sweeping squad.

Second, it says that the Zombies eat but don't digest 'cause their digestive system is "dead" they just accumulate the eaten meat in them until they explode, nonetheless even after their belly and rectum have blown out they'll keep on moving and eating. Also, it states that the "life expectance" for a Zombie before falling down 'cause of decomposition ranges from 2 to 5 years. This is untrue. As we can understand from the movies, Zombies -DO- digest the "fresh meat" they eat, as this actually seems to retard somehow the decomposition process. As a result, "life expectance" of a Zombie is as long as much "fresh meat" to eat it can find (up to 20 years, a character says in George Romero's "Day of the Dead"). It's true, as Brooks writes in the book, that the Zombies not only eat humans, but lacking those they'll crave on ANY live animal. In result, as it says at the beginning of "Land of the Dead": ''As long as there will be something alive on this planet, they will not stop''.

Another thing wrong: Brooks says that the Zombies completely lack intelligence, skills and memories from the past life. Untrue. Zombies tend to repeat (mindlessly, that's real) those acts that have been of high importance in their past life. They don't know why, they just do it. As for skills, Zombies -CAN- learn basic actions. In "Night of the Living Dead" and other Romero Zombie movies, them are seen using instruments such as sticks or stones. It's not unlikely. Even a monkey can use such basic tools; Zombies don't do it even half as good as monkeys, but they can learn to do it. I doubt that their learning capacities can go much further. True, in "Day of the Dead" and "Land of the Dead", we see Zombies able to shoot. Well, again, even a monkey can handle a gun and pull the trigger imitating the human behaviour. And then? Even if it (monkey or Zombie doesn't matters) could understand the importance of this act as a mean to offend, other than wasting bullet, once the gun it's out of ammo, I seriously doubt that it will ever be able to learn how to reload the gun it's handling. This requires a series of knowledges (recognizing the right ammunitions and magazines for that gun, but first of all recognizing AMMUNITIONS AND MAGAZINES for what them are) and movements (releasing the empty magazine, loading a new one and inserting it in the right way, releasing the hold-open device or cocking the bolt) for which monkeys and Zombies simply lack the brain capacities.

Last but not least: it's right what the book says, about the necessity to burn the bodies of Zombies and killed people as fast as possible. But, HOW? In such a crisis situation, with a worldwide Zombie epidemic blocking practically all productive activities, it's like after a nuclear war: fuel or any combustibles are simply too valuable to be used for mass burnings.
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"It is criminal to teach a man not to defend himself, when he is the constant victim of brutal attacks. It is legal and lawful to own a shotgun or a rifle. We believe in obeying the law." -- Malcolm X

"We (atheists) act in good conscience because we believe in moral principles, not because we expect a reward in Heaven." -- Margherita Hack


Last edited by PT-The Italian Commie : 12-30-2006 at 12:14 PM.
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Old 12-30-2006
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I've generally held that FN 5.7mm and HK 4.6mm PDW ammo is about perfect for zombies... Very light, low recoil, well designed for high-cap mags and has more than enough penetration for zombies. It also has better range than .22LR, making up for .22LRs main weakness in this field.

The only thing is, 5.7 and 4.6 are specialty ammunition, whereas .22LR can be found almost anywhere (even the UK in a zombie situation, if you know the right places to break i... I mean look).

A pair of MP-7s might make a nice zombie loadout. Better at CQB than the P90, and without the P90s magazine reliability issues. It trades off a little range but... With zombies... How important is that? The magazines are a bit smaller... 40 rounds vs 50... But considering how much easier the MP-7 is to reload, I think that isn't an issue. It's very light, and from what I hear very reliable. Can be used single-handed if you must (handy, when you need to open a door or work on something in a zombie-filled area). Recoil is pretty much a non-issue. The magazines are also lightweight. You can mount both a nice reflex sight and a BUIS, and you could also toss a laser sight on if you wanted (not a good idea against normal humans... but for zombies, it should work fine). It has that retracting stock, which is nice. It can also mount a supressor, but I'm not sure if the supressors avaliable for the MP-7 are as good as the ones avaliable for the P-90 (which has some really nice supressors).

And why a pair of them? Redundancy. It's light enough that having two isn't a huge weight problem. If one breaks, just ditch it and use the other. Plus should you come across someone else who you need to arm you have that option. And lastly, the MP-7 is small and light enough you could use one in each hand... Normally that is a really stupid tactic reserved for Hollywood idiots, but against hordes of zombies in the 0-25' range, using laser sights with a fair amount of training, it might actually be useful.

I haven't read the book much yet, but from my skimming of it, I gather it favors the M1 Carbine for anti-zombie use... Frankly I think this is a bad idea. M1 Carbine ammo weighs almost as much as 5.56. Its magazines are much heavier and a bit clumsy. It is much harder to reload. Its range is much more limited and your options for additional gear (sights, grips, etc)are pretty slim. It has the same weight as many lightweight AR-15s. It has worse ergonomics and is harder to use in CQB. It has an exposed bolt which just begs for reliability issues. it isn't an easy firearm to clean (it isn't complex, it just takes more time and effort). .30 Carbine ammo is much harder to find than 5.56/.223, and is often of questionable quality. I'd much rather have an AR-15, or an FN-SCAR, or even a decent AK.
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Old 12-30-2006
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Have the book and read it several times over-- which led to my opinions on the last ACC (armchair commando) debriefing on a zombie surivival outfit (arms and my argument against a long blade melee weapon).
His latest book-- World War Z is an excellent read and simply scary in light of the general populace in the embrace of an all out world war between the living and walking undead.
The one section of WWZ that especially twisted my guts was the "first person" account of a chinese doctor who sees one of the first zombie cases, but is quickly silenced by the Chinese govt.
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Old 12-31-2006
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I have not read "World War Z" but I expect to pick up a copy... as soon as it gets translated and edited in Italy, LOL!

As for the "Survival Guide" favouring the M1 Carbine, well, that's just an outline drawing. What Brooks says in the book is that the SEMI-AUTOMATIC LONG ARMS (rifles and carbines) are to be preferred, for their higher controllability and accuracy (remember, you don't need to spray a hell-fire against a Zombie hord, unless you are using a machinegun from an high position, such as the terrace of a fortified building or an helicopter: it's a waste, you can kill a Zombie only with a headshot, and that's right the use for which a semi-auto is meant). The M1 Carbine is used as a "symbol" of the semi-automatic rifles (after all, Brooks lives in NYC, do you really expect that a Knickerbocker could ever put his hands on an AR-15 or AK?). And the M1 Carbine is not so bad after all.

About the usage of .5'7x28mm (FN P90) and .4'6x30mm (Heckler&Koch MP7A1-PDW), them are just fine as long as one remembers to use them semi-auto. If that's what I'd have to carry, I'd want an MP-7 in a holster at my right thight, and an FN P90 slinging on my back. As a personal weapon, in case I had to choose a semi-auto rifle, I'd want a scoped Beretta RX4-Storm or FN PS-2000.
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Old 12-31-2006
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PT-- there's academic credit for graduate students to translate fiction to another language at the university I teach at. I'll ask a couple of colleagues in that dept if any of their Italian majors would be interested in doing it for me and I'll send it to you-- you're going to love the book.

To the subject at hand-- I also got Brooks's idea of using the M1 as a round figure for automatics, however, he's personally stated that it's the most accurate of semiauto's out there. And by CMP standards, it is.

But I'll always argue for modular carbines/rifles for zombie hordes. I'd want something I could swap uppers (and calibers) for in any scenerio. Atleast one Blaser rifle in two or three calibers depending-- fastest bolt action in the world IMHO. Maybe something like a .460 S&W revolver-- not for the whomping big .460...just because it can shoot everything from .38 special to .357 to .41 to .44 (mag and special) and up to .454.
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Old 12-31-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armorer
PT-- there's academic credit for graduate students to translate fiction to another language at the university I teach at. I'll ask a couple of colleagues in that dept if any of their Italian majors would be interested in doing it for me and I'll send it to you-- you're going to love the book.

I'll be glad if you do it... but remember, I can read English too!
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"We (atheists) act in good conscience because we believe in moral principles, not because we expect a reward in Heaven." -- Margherita Hack

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Old 12-31-2006
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Default What the hell are you talking about?!?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armorer
Maybe something like a .460 S&W revolver-- not for the whomping big .460...just because it can shoot everything from .38 special to .357 to .41 to .44 (mag and special) and up to .454.
A .38/.357 or a .41 would fall right the f()[{ through a .460 cylinder. A .44 *might* fit, but even if it stays there, imagine the cylinder / bore alignment and headspacing would be precarious at best. Woe unto the fool who attempts this, but if you do, SEND VIDEO.
I know this thread is a hypothetical, but try to stick to technically accurate hypotheses.
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