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  #1  
Old 01-03-2007
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Angry I am mad as hell with the USA and I am not going to take it anymore!!!

HERE and HERE (in Italian; yes, it applies to Italians too).

Can I say that I am sick with that? Perhaps after 9/11 and after your country has turned from the United States of America to the current status of Nazi-Bushische Reich of Amerika, you are getting used to such invasions in personal privacy and loss of civil rights, but here in Europe, we still care a little bit about that, and we are pretty PISSED OFF!

Do your politicians REALLY THINK that this will stop ONE SINGLE TERRORIST from reaching the American soil if they want to?
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  #2  
Old 01-03-2007
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Default oh for fuck's sake...

Save the Nazi comparisons, you shit-for-brains Euridiot.
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  #3  
Old 01-03-2007
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Well-- To put it more eloquently than Bacon...

PT, looking at Italian gun laws and British survelance...you really can't claim this is as fascist or compare to Nazism. This is nothing new--and at least is open handed. The U.S. is openly asking for the information...realize that the British govt. has been doing this sort of background check for ages.

The Heathrow liquid explosives plot that was prevented back over the summer was first uncovered when British intelligence looked through one of the conspirator's emails based upon the a ticket purchase. It's the same data system that the U.S. is requesting-- publicly, i.e. openly.
At least OUR govt. tells us its intent to various degrees--a public statement will be released on what they to do with the information.

Is this an invasion of privacy?
Yes-- but they are foreigners.
Is this any different than what some commerical credit systems already do?
NO-- knowing people who work for Visa, while they may not check email systems, they do scan purchase history and supplement credit ratings based upon annual spendings. Somtimes even providing mailing information to advertisers on what to expect from a target consumer group. Hell-- my buddy's wife Tivo'ed an episode of the lesbian oriented show, "The L Word" and the next thing he knew, the Tivo was asking him if he wanted to tape shows like "Queer as Folk" and "Queer eye for the Straight Guy."

There's nothing underhanded about this, the Brits will be recieving something of their own in the end, and the system will prevail.
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  #4  
Old 01-03-2007
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PT-The Italian Commie PT-The Italian Commie is offline
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Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armorer
Well-- To put it more eloquently than Bacon...

Why, Bacon has written anything? Oh, yes... like you're still thinking that I read his posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armorer
PT, looking at Italian gun laws and British survelance...you really can't claim this is as fascist or compare to Nazism. This is nothing new--and at least is open handed. The U.S. is openly asking for the information...realize that the British govt. has been doing this sort of background check for ages.

The Heathrow liquid explosives plot that was prevented back over the summer was first uncovered when British intelligence looked through one of the conspirator's emails based upon the a ticket purchase. It's the same data system that the U.S. is requesting-- publicly, i.e. openly.
At least OUR govt. tells us its intent to various degrees--a public statement will be released on what they to do with the information.

The fact still remains: your Government has no RIGHT to suspect us all being terrorists. It is offensive, at least. Oh, of course, this move of your Government is not meant to be an offense: it's meant to be much MUCH more, and something more frightening in my point of view. But should I speak openly about, it would be an offense to YOU.
What your Government has "told of its intent" is to violate systematically the individual rights of foreign citizens willing for one reason or another to travel your Country, gathering personal informations about them and using them at their will, without consent, without limitations, without even informing the subjects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armorer
Is this an invasion of privacy?
Yes-- but they are foreigners.

Translation: The foreign citizens have no rights in front of the American law. Okay. I'll write this up on a Post-It, just in case I'd want to consider America for my next Summer holidays again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armorer
Is this any different than what some commerical credit systems already do?
NO-- knowing people who work for Visa, while they may not check email systems, they do scan purchase history and supplement credit ratings based upon annual spendings. Somtimes even providing mailing information to advertisers on what to expect from a target consumer group. Hell-- my buddy's wife Tivo'ed an episode of the lesbian oriented show, "The L Word" and the next thing he knew, the Tivo was asking him if he wanted to tape shows like "Queer as Folk" and "Queer eye for the Straight Guy."

In my Country, and generally in the other Countries of the EU, such a practice is considered an illegal invasion of privacy, and any company/corporate engaged in such marketing practices might be taken by any citizen in front of the "Privacy Guarantee Authority" and sentenced to high fines (yes, no judicial red tape, Courthouses are not involved in such procedures, the Privacy Authority decides quickly and unappealably and has the power to enforce its decisions via the Law Enforcement).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armorer
There's nothing underhanded about this, the Brits will be recieving something of their own in the end, and the system will prevail.

Save me all this BS. The Italian news have all been clear about: this applies to ALL people coming from Europe, not only to the Brits; and those airliners that will fail in providing those informations will be banned from traffic to and from the USA.
Also, giving these informations to the American authorities will virtually enable them to check your Credit Card and your E-Mail FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE.

I can barely take when it's MY national Law Enforcements doing these checks (and they still need a warrant to). Not to mention if it's a foreign Government doing it. And you call yourselves the "Land of Liberty"? Sure. Once, maybe.
When it's MY Government doing that, I call it "invasion of privacy". When it's a FOREIGN Government doing that, I call it espionage.

The UK will accept those orders from Amerika because it has the highest number of people travelling to and from the USA in the entire Europe (some Britons actually WORK in the USA and live in England, they fly to the USA in the Monday and get back in the Friday). But it's pretty difficult to think that the rest of the EU will accept such a practice; many European national authorities, and the EU itself, has blamed it as a "Severe invasion of privacy", and have asked the US authorities to make a step back on this decision; should them still even refuse to discuss this point, several European countries might consider the introduction of similar red tape and checks for the US citizens inbound to Europe.
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"We (atheists) act in good conscience because we believe in moral principles, not because we expect a reward in Heaven." -- Margherita Hack


Last edited by PT-The Italian Commie : 01-03-2007 at 12:14 PM.
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  #5  
Old 01-03-2007
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Default Not to worry PT

You'll get over it.... the Indians did
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  #6  
Old 01-04-2007
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Thumbs down No way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolphin_Shooter
You'll get over it.... the Indians did



You'll see things getting worse for your people coming here. After all, just as we all Europeans can be terrorists, you all Americans can be anything: drug or armas teaffickers, money launderers, child pornography smugglers...
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"It is criminal to teach a man not to defend himself, when he is the constant victim of brutal attacks. It is legal and lawful to own a shotgun or a rifle. We believe in obeying the law." -- Malcolm X

"We (atheists) act in good conscience because we believe in moral principles, not because we expect a reward in Heaven." -- Margherita Hack

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  #7  
Old 01-04-2007
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Default Hey PT

Thank your peacefull muslim pals for all this shit and stop blaming America.
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  #8  
Old 01-04-2007
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Cool Simple...

If this is too much, then stop going to US.
It would be really bad if US have decided to apply this sort of control all over the planet. But inside their borders it's something that we have to accept as foreigners.
My emails have a lot in that could be judged "dangerous" - explosives informations, reloading data, shooting meetings, etc - but I don't think that the US government will ban me from going there. They will surely track my moves and spend a lot of US taxes on it, but maybe it will make their land safer after all.
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Old 01-04-2007
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Honestly, a country can make any criteria they want to be necessary to get in. If you don't like it, just don't go there. Nobody's forcing you to.

On the other hand, if a country disallows nonspecific people from leaving, then there's a problem.

There ARE parts of the EU where every single thing you do outside your home is recorded on camera. (One wonders if the aptly named show "Big Brother", created for the state run BBC, had any intention of glamorizing or at least acclimating people to the idea.) But I don't have to go there either, lucky me.

If the US starts telling Italy and Japan how they have to let the US do this on all their flights between, you got an honest problem.

And anyway PT, considering all of us hang around on the internet and speak openly and sometimes authoritatively about military weapons, sans games or airsoft nonsense, most of us here have probably had at least a cursory glance from one intelligence or law enforcement agency or another. None of us seems to have run into any real trouble for it yet either... maybe some of them are just as concerned about the growing zombie problem as we are.
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  #10  
Old 01-04-2007
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You're mad as hell and not going to take it anymore... Why do I care again? Not like you can do anything about it.


The United States has a national right to require anything of anyone entering our country. We could make a rule that says everyone has to dress up like a circus clown and stand on their head for the entire flight. Don't like it? Fine, just stay the hell in your own country and it won't be an issue for you.

You have no right to travel to the United States. It is privilage that we alone control.

The same is true for Italy. You have the exact same rights in that regard.



I don't hear you bitching much about countries like Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Oman, Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, and various other Islamic crapholes. If I attempted to travel to any of those nations today, they would do a background check on me, and as soon as they discovered the fact I'm Jewish and/or Israeli linked I would be denied a visa (official policy in all those nations. Call their embassy and ask if you don't believe me).

But frankly, I don't care. I have no intent on visiting those crapholes. It's their national right to keep me out and my person right to not try to get in.
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