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  #1  
Old 01-13-2007
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Default Let's build a list of the "next generation" 5.56mm rifles.

Since there seem to be quite a few "next generation" 5.56mm combat rifles coming out on the US civilian market, I think we need to put a list of them together (and then later a set of guesses/reviews).

Listed by maker, If I miss any, add them in a reply:

FN:

FN SCAR [FN ARM].

FN FS-2000.


Magpul:

Masada.


Robinson Arms:

XCR.


SiG:

SiG-556.
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  #2  
Old 01-13-2007
Colonel Colonel is offline
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Default New Generation 5.56 mm Combat Rifles

Not sure if they have civilian models, but I would mention also:

H&K:

HK 416

Steyr-Mannlicher:

Steyr AUG A-3
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  #3  
Old 01-13-2007
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Beretta:

RX-4 "Storm"
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Old 01-13-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PT-The Italian Commie
Beretta: RX-4 "Storm"
Let's say Beretta AR-160 not civilian Rx4. You know I have a feeling that you countrymen are going to create a bullpup not classical design rifle (I've seen some detailed drawings of the new design among all the selection device for right or left-hand cartridge case ejection, completly useless for the classical design rifle) and the whole Soldato Futuro mock-up gun is only for pulling the wool over our eyes.
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Old 01-13-2007
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Default Funny thing is

None of them are really great improvements over what we already have.I guess those defense dollars gotta be spent somewere!
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Old 01-13-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolphin_Shooter
None of them are really great improvements over what we already have.I guess those defense dollars gotta be spent somewere!

All of the traditional rifles are considerable improvements. Let's compare the FN SCAR to the M16/M4 for a minute:

Folding stock: SCAR has it, M16/M4 cannot have one by design.

Monolithic upper: SCAR has it, M16/M4 do not.

Free float barrel: SCAR has it, service M16s and M4s do not.

Quick change barrel: SCAR has it, service M16s and M4s do not.

Easy to clean gas-system: SCAR has it, service M16s and M4s do not.

The ability to rechamber the weapon into a different caliber without replacing the upper: SCAR has it, M16s and M4s cannot by design.


Then we can go into all the little improvements... Like the receiver being better sealed to keep sand and dirt out (just a little important these days). Or the fact the SCAR has an actual charging handle, making it much easier to chamber a round while prone. Or the fact the SCAR has better ergonomics and is more ambidextrous.
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Old 01-14-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolphin_Shooter
None of them are really great improvements over what we already have.
Speaking about pure technical aspects of the new assault rifles they are great improvements over M16 system, but there is another side - the whole logistic issue. So from logistic and financial point of view is better to use older, worst system but well known and full implemented. Or - in other words - the M16/M4-line it is not so bad to replace it at once. But the special service soldiers have their own opinion about it and they choose the SCAR system.
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Old 01-14-2007
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Default I seriously doubt so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by REMOV
Let's say Beretta AR-160 not civilian Rx4. You know I have a feeling that you countrymen are going to create a bullpup not classical design rifle (I've seen some detailed drawings of the new design among all the selection device for right or left-hand cartridge case ejection, completly useless for the classical design rifle) and the whole Soldato Futuro mock-up gun is only for pulling the wool over our eyes.

This thread is to make a list of what will end up in the next MONTHS (not YEARS) on the American CIVILIAN market. The RX-4 "Storm" is a new-generation civilian carbine, so it's in the count. Any civilian version of the AR-160 is a mirage for the next 10 years, if ever.

Also, don't think that the AR-160 is going anywhere else than in the hands of Italian soldiers. Most probably it won't even be offered for export. Let's face it: BERETTA production capabilities are seriously undersized as far as it concerns assault rifles: the shifting from the BM-59 battle rifle to ther 70/90 assault rifle system within the Italian Armed Forces was started in 1991 and completed in 1998, not to mention how long it took for several Italian Army units, back in the 1960s, to shift from the Garand to the BM-59, and later, for certain selected troops, to make the "small shift" from the BM-59 to the AR-70/.223. A huge order of the AR-160 from a foreign Country might clog the production facilities and stop the adoption of the rifle by the Italian Armed Forces (to which them should go above all and first of all).

And, IMHO, BERETTA and the Italian Ministry of Defense are wasting tons of money in a basically useless project. BERETTA already has a partnership with FN, so they should acquire manufacturing rights for the FN F-2000 and the Italian troops should get it right now. Otherwise (if they want a bull-pup), they might go for the IWI "Tavor" or the STK SAR-21, or even the AUG, of course still made under license here in Italy: no need to re-invent the wheel everytime, it's already there, just use it.

Speaking of conventional layout rifles, they might as well get manufacturing rights for the HK G36, or develop a national variant of it (since ther G-36 is AR18-based, there are no copyright infringements on it), or as well go for a locally-manufactured version of the XM8-LAR (since the Americans seem not to want it any longer).
But I still believe that we should get back from the grave some of these ahead-of-their-times SOCIMI designs from the late 1980s/early 1990s.
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Last edited by PT-The Italian Commie : 01-14-2007 at 04:19 AM.
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Old 01-14-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PT-The Italian Commie
(since ther G-36 is AR18-based, there are no copyright infringements on it)
Well, there are elements of the G36 assault rifle design which are patent protected (receiver, gas escape port, sliding guide in the breech block carrier), so it is not so easy. There is a big mess between Mexicans and Heckler & Koch now, about the FX-05 assault rifle.
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Old 01-14-2007
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What really constitutes a "next generation" BTW? Im also not 100% sure what is on the US market but add these anyway. There are also plenty of "next generation" ar-15 platform rifles.

Kel-Tec;

SU-16D

the RFB (coming up)

Krebs (Molot);

KTR-03

Lucznik Radom;

Beryl IPSC

H&K

SL8 (The New, improved tactical rifle)
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