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Old 01-13-2007
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Default Italians are Great allies!

Note the dripping sarcasm..

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,166926,00.html

FOXNEWS.COM HOME > WORLD > NATIONAL
Italian Red Cross Hid Iraqi Insurgents in Exchange for Kidnapped Workers

Thursday, August 25, 2005

ROME — Italy's Red Cross (search) treated four Iraqi insurgents with the knowledge of the Italian government last year and hid them from U.S. forces in exchange for the freedom of two kidnapped aid workers, a top Italian Red Cross official said in an interview published Thursday.

Maurizio Scelli, the outgoing chief of the Italian Red Cross, told the Turin newspaper La Stampa that he kept the deal secret from U.S. officials, complying with "a nonnegotiable condition" imposed by Iraqi mediators who helped him secure the release of Italians Simona Pari and Simona Torretta. They were abducted in Baghdad Sept. 7 and freed Sept. 28.

"The mediators asked us to save the lives of four alleged terrorists wanted by the Americans who were wounded in combat," Scelli was quoted as saying. "We hid them and brought them to Red Cross doctors, who operated on them."

They took the wounded insurgents to a Baghdad hospital in a jeep and an ambulance, smuggling them through two U.S. checkpoints under blankets and boxes of medicines, Scelli said.

Also as part of the deal, four Iraqi children with leukemia were brought to Italy for treatment, he said.

Scelli said he informed Premier Silvio Berlusconi's government of the deal and of the decision to hide it from the United States through Gianni Letta, an undersecretary in charge of Italy's hostage crises in Iraq.

"Keeping quiet with the Americans about our efforts to free the hostages was an irrevocable condition to guarantee the safety of the hostages and ourselves," he told La Stampa. He said Letta agreed.

Officials at the Italian Red Cross headquarters in Rome said Scelli was out of the office and could not be immediately contacted.

In a statement Thursday, the Italian government stopped short of denying it knew about the deal. It said Scelli acted independently and that the government "never conditioned or oriented his action, which ... was developed in complete autonomy."

The statement also did not directly address if Italy had kept the United States in the dark about Scelli's efforts but reiterated that Italy has always maintained a "full and reciprocal" cooperation with its American allies in Iraq.

In Washington, U.S. State Department spokesman Sean McCormack sidestepped questions on whether the United States has asked the Italian government for an explanation.

"Our views, the United States policies with respect to negotiation with hostage-takers are well known. We don't do it," McCormack said, adding that Rome and Washington are "close friends" and allies in the war on terror.

The head of the Italian parliamentary commission overseeing secret services, Enzo Bianco, said the commission would hold hearings soon with Scelli and government representatives, news agency ANSA reported.

Opposition leaders called on the government to tell Parliament what really happened and contended the alleged deal endangered Red Cross neutrality.

"Scelli conducted an improper negotiation using the symbol of the Red Cross as a shield," said opposition lawmaker Tana De Zulueta. "The Red Cross is obliged to offer assistance to all parties involved in a conflict."

The International Red Cross said it was not involved in or informed of Scelli's activities. It said the Italian Red Cross is an independent organization that doesn't answer to the Geneva-based International Committee of the Red Cross.

"Scelli worked mostly in a personal capacity," said spokeswoman Antonella Notari. "I would not qualify what he did as an Italian Red Cross activity."

Notari would not comment on whether Scelli's initiatives violated the ICRC's pledge of neutrality, saying the commission needed more information from the Italian branch.

Iraqi Deputy Foreign Minister Labeed Abbawi, in Rome, declined to comment about Scelli's allegations, saying "we were not part of that negotiation."

"All we ask countries is that they should not give any political or financial concessions" to insurgents, he added.
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Old 01-13-2007
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#1: The Red Cross is an international organization. The Government has not, nor should it have, any control on it.

#2: 99,9% of Italians are against the war on Iraq, and the Red Cross members are obvioulsy between them. Don't suppose that our humanitarian personnel out there won't cure a wounded "insurgent" just because it'd piss the Americans off (or maybe that's right why they'd do it).

#3: Considered what -YOU- did to one of the best men of our Military Intelligence dispatched to liberate one of our civilians held hostage, I suppose we have chosen the lesser evil this time.

#4: As a sovereign nation, we arrogate ourselves the right to decide what's the best to save our people held hostage. And we don't want meddlings from foreign Countries, especially if they -CLAIM- to be "Allies" while all they want is to drag our ass in a war that THEY wanted and THEY started.

#5: To put in a way that you Americans seem to understand better than polite dialogue (well, BACON GUY for sure):
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Old 01-13-2007
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So PT, you support Italians hiding people who violate the Geneva convention?

We will keep this in mind the next time you complain about supposed US violations of the convention.
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Old 01-14-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UZI4U
So PT, you support Italians hiding people who violate the Geneva convention?

I support the International Red Cross (and the Italian one, being part of it) when it offers assistance to ALL parties involved in a conflict, regardless, as it is obliged to.

AND, remind, the HUGE difference between insurgents and regular US troops in violating the conventions: the US troops are REGULAR FORCES; they are OBLIGED to respect the conventions. The insurgents are IRREGULAR forces; for the international war right, them basically do not exist. They are not bound to the respect any convention. Iraqi regular troops, yes (because them are REGULAR); US and other Allied regular troops, yes (because them are REGULAR); Israeli regular troops, yes (because them are REGULAR); Iranian regular troops, yes (because them are REGULAR).
But insurgents, guerrillas, resistants, terrorists, however you want to call them, well, technically no.
It's not fair, of course, nor I am saying that it's right. That's just the way it is.
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Old 01-14-2007
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Incorrect, PT. Try reading the Geneva convention sometime. There are rules that apply to "irregular" forces.

And you aren't going to like those rules one little bit.
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Old 01-14-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UZI4U
Incorrect, PT. Try reading the Geneva convention sometime. There are rules that apply to "irregular" forces.

And you aren't going to like those rules one little bit.

Roger that.

But I still say that the fact that the regular forces fighting the worldwide terrorist menace -DO- respect these conventions, while the terrorists do not, it's exactly what DISTINGUISHES the good guys from the bad guys.

As for the "Italian are great allies!" shit, let me rephrase, maybe, in a more polite way: what Dolphin has posted is AT BEST exaggerate. True, the Italian Red Cross has given medical assistance to insurgents; but it's in the status of the ICRC to provide relief to ALL parts involved in a conflict, regardless. I am persuaded of the fact that the Italian Red Cross has done nothing else but assisting medically the wounded insurgents that were taken there. Has the Italian Red Cross "hidden and protected dangerous terrorists"? It depends from the point of view. From the American radical point of view, yes; but the truth is that those people were patients in the Red Cross facilities, and the conventions clearly state that the people recovered in Red Cross facilities can -NOT- be arrested by, or turned to, the forces of the opposite party in conflict until he has been healed and released (translation: a wounded Taliban that is hospitalized in a Red Cross facility in Kabul can not be turned to the Americans, nor is legal for them to enter the facility and take him into custody).
Believe it or not, this medical assistance provided by the Italian Red Cross to insurgents has saved the lives of many Italian civilians held hostage. The insurgents have learned to trust the Italian Red Cross. Many of these hostages have been released in exchange of medical assistance to irregulars.

BTW, you can say everything about the Italian Red Cross EXCEPT blame them of having been terrorist-friendly or anti-USA. In fact, it was more politicized and pro-American than you might think (and than the ICRC would have liked to), since the then High Commissioner, Mr. Maurizio Scelli, is a close friend and a Party buddy of the right-wing leader Silvio Berlusconi. Criticisms to the Italian Red Cross has come several times from the International Committee of Red Cross, as the IRC was blamed for these reasons of being not reliable, too partial, in violation to the ICRC dictates. Not to mention that Mr. Scelli has been put under accusation of having deliberately, and treacherously, forced Red Cross volounteers to campaign for "Forza Italia" (the right-wing party of Mr. Silvio Berlusconi) during the electoral campaign for the last political elections (April 2006).
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Old 01-14-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PT-The Italian Commie
From the American radical point of view,

rad·i·cal
'ra-di-k&l

1 relating to or affecting the fundamental nature of something. 2 advocating thorough political or social reform; politically extreme. 3 departing from tradition; innovative or progressive.



America owning this planet is not departing from tradition, since it has been that way for sixty years. Neither is it advocating political or social reform. I guess, however, you might be correctly using the first meaning of the word. It is radical in that it relates to the fundamental nature of who owns this planet.

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Old 01-15-2007
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Thumbs down America owning this planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by UZI4U
America owning this planet is not departing from tradition, since it has been that way for sixty years. Neither is it advocating political or social reform. I guess, however, you might be correctly using the first meaning of the word. It is radical in that it relates to the fundamental nature of who owns this planet.



Oh, but that's just my two cents...
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Old 01-15-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Durden
It's a delusion and dangerous attitude that many Texans seem to have.

That's ironic coming from a helot with delusions of being a homoioi.

We only let you out of your cage for fun, you know.
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Old 01-15-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Durden
It's a delusion and dangerous attitude that many Texans seem to have.


Everyone gather around and cheer. The fucking idiot has returned.
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