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  #1  
Old 02-25-2007
Zoran Zoran is offline
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Default Explore for Perfect hand gun-Bravo 5

I would like to kindly ask you to sincerely answer this question:

Would like to have pistol Bravo 5 and why?

Regards,
Zoran
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  #2  
Old 02-25-2007
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NO.

It fixes problems that really aren't problems. I have had ONE box of ammo fail to function in my 10mm. After testing it, I found I could tell by simply looking at the cartridge what the problem was (they loaded round .40 S&W instead of truncated cone 10mm bullets). Otherwise, my pistol has NEVER failed. My Sig P229 has NEVER failed at all, with any round, ever.

The failure in my 10mm was due to bad cartridge profile and was a feeding problem.

What would happen with your design on a feeding problem? It wouldn't do any better. In fact, it would do worse, because there isn't an alternate means of extraction over the trigger. If it gets stuck on the feeding cycle with a misfeed, and the extractor hasn't engaged the cartridge yet, how exactly do I get the cartridge out without taking apart the gun? Safely?

And of course, my finger is having to do all that work... extract an expanded cartridge from the chamber (that's explosively fitted metal after all), eject the cartridge from the gun, cock the hammer, strip a new cartridge from the magazine, chamber the cartridge, and release the hammer. That's a lot of work, and when most pistol cartridges are best used with double taps... which I'd likely be unable to do properly anymore...

No.
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  #3  
Old 02-26-2007
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PT-The Italian Commie PT-The Italian Commie is offline
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Exclamation My scathing criticism.

The "Perfect Handgun Bravo-5" is done so that you can "cycle the slide single-handedly" in the event of a cartridge malfunction: apparently, by PULLING THE TRIGGER, it will move the slide back-and-forward to eject the malfunctioning cartridge, chamber a new one, and re-arm the stryker.

Nothing new under the sun. This system comes from a pocket pistol of German manufacture from the 1920s (the Lignose "Einhand"), and is also currently used by two Chinesem semi-automatic pistols, the .7'62mm NORINCO Type 77 (service handgun for PAP and PLA, undergoing replacement), and the .9x19mm NORINCO Model 77-B commercial pistol; in both cases, this single-hand slide-cycling capability function is performed not by the trigger itself but by a switch placed in front of it (front of the trigger guard); this also works as a hold-open release lever: pushing it when the slide is held open will make it go back in closed position, chambering a round and cocking the stryker.
The major drawback in this design is that the system is heavy as hell. An average shooter has not enough strenght in one single finger to cycle it properly; the attempt will probably result in jamming the gun (using the front trigger-guard cycling switch to close the slide from held-open position is instead very light and easy).
The NORINCO 77-B also has a particularly-shaped back sight that can be used to cycle the slide in case of an emergency, by leaning it against a sharp edge, like a wall corner, and pushing the gun forward; it's much more simple, and useful in the event, to say, that the user is wounded during a shootout, sitting on the ground, but still conscious and able, or needing, to shoot at assailants holding his gun with one sole hand; the NORINCO 77-B uses a delayed-blowback operation to facilitate single-handed use: the recoil IS the one of a standard 9mm, but the user will feel blowback and recoil only AFTER the round has effectively left the bore, thus them don't afflict the accuracy of the shot.

So, as you can see, there is nothing new; on the contrary, the single-handed slide cycling system of such kind has proved to be just TOO heavy for a person to operate... single handedly! What do you do with something that's supposed to be operated single-handedly but which actually requires MORE FORCE to be operated than what an average shooter can deliver with one single hand?

But at least, the Lignose "Einhand", and the NORINCO Type 77 and 77-B, use a SEPARATED switch (trigger guard front) to cycle this system. The "Perfect Handgun Bravo-5" uses THE TRIGGER ITSELF! I mean: that same TRIGGER that is supposed to OPERATE THE HAMMER? This can lead to two different malfunctions:
#1 - You pull the trigger with a good cartridge chamber, the gun instead cycles the slide and ejects it.
#2 - You pull the trigger to cycle the slide and eject a defective cartridge, the gun instead operates the hammer and strykes the cartridge again: the gun will either not fire, or ignite the cartridge and cause an accident (it's unlikely that an average gun user will be pointing the gun towards a safe direction, especially if in a moment of stress, i.e. during a shootout).

The "Perfect Handgun Bravo-5" sure is the demonstration of what a gun enthusiast, with some technical knowledge, can come out with. But on the other hand, in this case the enthusiast has complicated his life way too much. Mr. Bezanovic' should have instead put his genious at work to solve some REAL problems that normally afflict our handguns. Just ask around to any sports shooter and you'll find an endless list of things to fix in a pistol.

This said, I am not saying that it's to be waisted and forgot. We are waiting it for the range test.

Oh, on a side note: this is the sole and only place, and not only around the Web, in which I have ever heard about this gun. It would probably be a great scoop for "Diana Armi", but let's face it: there are too much risks of an hoax to write anything about. I need something more... well, concrete.
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  #4  
Old 02-26-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PT-The Italian Commie

...
Oh, on a side note: this is the sole and only place, and not only around the Web, in which I have ever heard about this gun. It would probably be a great scoop for "Diana Armi", but let's face it: there are too much risks of an hoax to write anything about. I need something more... well, concrete.
There are already an newly article about the Bravo-5 and his designer Mr Zoran Bezanovic in an Italian magazine (Armi, I don't remember the exact name).
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  #5  
Old 02-26-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger
There are already an newly article about the Bravo-5 and his designer Mr Zoran Bezanovic in an Italian magazine (Armi, I don't remember the exact name).

#1 - ALL Italian gun magazines have the word "Armi" (it means "Weapons") in their name.

#2 - If it's so, I must admit that I have missed it. Could you please report the exact name and the issue (number)?
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  #6  
Old 02-26-2007
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I don't think this is a hoax. You can see photos and information here:
http://securityarms.com/20010315/gal.../3000/3022.htm

If you do a write up don't forget to credit us in some way. Maybe someone will send a check or at least a box of chicken wings.
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  #7  
Old 02-27-2007
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PT-The Italian Commie PT-The Italian Commie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJ
I don't think this is a hoax. You can see photos and information here:
http://securityarms.com/20010315/gal.../3000/3022.htm

Tell me something that I still don't know...

No, seriously. There are too many chances for this thing to end up in a soap bubble to bother making a write-up that maybe they won't even publish, because there are much more important things to do and to attend at (like the IWA in March, and then again the EXA in April).

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJ
If you do a write up don't forget to credit us in some way. Maybe someone will send a check or at least a box of chicken wings.

And for what? For the pics? Do you realize that this gun looks like made out of chocolate?
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"It is criminal to teach a man not to defend himself, when he is the constant victim of brutal attacks. It is legal and lawful to own a shotgun or a rifle. We believe in obeying the law." -- Malcolm X

"We (atheists) act in good conscience because we believe in moral principles, not because we expect a reward in Heaven." -- Margherita Hack

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  #8  
Old 02-27-2007
Zoran Zoran is offline
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Default Bravo 5-Perfect hand gun

Quote:
Originally Posted by PT-The Italian Commie
Tell me something that I still don't know...

No, seriously. There are too many chances for this thing to end up in a soap bubble to bother making a write-up that maybe they won't even publish, because there are much more important things to do and to attend at (like the IWA in March, and then again the EXA in April).



And for what? For the pics? Do you realize that this gun looks like made out of chocolate?
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  #9  
Old 02-27-2007
Zoran Zoran is offline
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Default Bravo 5-Perfect hand gun

Hello,
Armi Magazine (Febbraio 2007-numero 2) publication story about "Bravo 5"!
Regards,
Zoran
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  #10  
Old 02-27-2007
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Thumbs up Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoran
Hello,
Armi Magazine (Febbraio 2007-numero 2) publication story about "Bravo 5"!
Regards,
Zoran

Yes, I have to admit that I have lost the last 3 issues of ARMI MAGAZINE... but DIANA ARMI has all the archives of the "rivals", as well as of the major gun magazines worldwide. I'll give it a sneak peek.

Please Mr. Bezanovic, let me clarify that I am not against your gun design "a priori". I am all for novelites in a sector, like the firearms one, which is excessively traditionalist. But I have also learned, at my expenses, that for every single novelty that actually brings useful improvements in the guns world, there are 3 or 4 more that are, at least, inconclusive and a waste of time, money, and engineering genious. The fact that ARMI MAGAZINE has talked about your gun doesn't makes the situation better. It's not because of you: ARMI MAGAZINE isn't exactly known for its total impartiality, in fact, like many American gun magazines (such as GUNS AND AMMO, just to name one) they have a strange tendence to excessive enthusiasm towards simply EVERYTHING that goes "Boom".

Sure, the pictures of the gun seen in the SECURITYARMS.COM archive -really- make your pistol look like being made out of chocolate... I would be very interested to know which materials and procedures you have used to build your prototype. Stampings, maybe? Or is it just a mock-up?

Also, I'd like to take a look at the single-handed slide-cycling capability. Looking at the pics that SECURITYARMS.COM has, the "BRAVO 5" pistol doesn't seems to have a slide in the real sense of the word, but again, the pics might represent a plastic mock-up. What is important in the system is how heavy the trigger pull results when used to cycle the slide (which is the main problem in the same system used in the NORINCO pistols described above), and if there are issues of reliability to be fixed (i.e. if there is the possibility that the pistol might fire when it's supposed to cycle the slide instead, or vice-versa).

Please accept my best regards, Mr. Bezanovic, and I hope we will have further contacts in the future to discuss in a friendly and constructive way.
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