US Army mulls requirement for Personal Defence Weapon.

[PT-The Italian Commie]

Originally Posted by Jane's Defence Weekly - first posted to [url

http://jdw.janes.com[/url] - 28 February 2007]
US Army mulls requirement for Personal Defence Weapon
The US Army is looking to acquire a new personal defence weapon: a compact, medium-powered firearm for issue to vehicle crews. Brigadier General Mark Brown, the head of the army's Program Executive Office (PEO) - Soldier and commanding general of the Natick Soldier Center in Massachusetts, told Jane's that the new weapon would be "larger than a pistol and smaller than a carbine" and would be employed by personnel not primarily engaged in infantry combat. "The need is for vehicle crews," Gen Brown said.

Make way for the Heckler&Koch MP7A1-PDW or the FN P90? Shame on those who said that the .4'6x30mm-HK and the .5'7x28mm-SS190 were too "small calibers" to be adopted by US... the best would be something along the lines of the HK G36-C "Commando", but even PEO says that it has to be "larger than a pistol and smaller than a carbine". The only other alternative might be the TDI (Transformational Defense Industries, Inc) "Kriss Super-V" XSMG... or the Israeli IWI (Israel Weapon Industries Ltd.) .5'56x45mm "Micro Tavor" sub-carbine, which is a Bull-Pup ("larger than a pistol, smaller than a carbine"), and takes same ammo and magazines of the M-16/M4 weapon system currently in service (easier supply), and can be modified to use 9x19mm ammunition, again a service cartridge.

So, your opinion?

[TJ]

This calls for the AWC G2.

[PT-The Italian Commie]

Originally Posted by TJ

This calls for the AWC G2.

Or for the Kel-Tec RFB.

Think about it: Bull-pup = compact, ideal FPW; Forward-ejection = usable anywhere, no danger of throwing hot brass in the face of buddies around you, and firable from the hip; 18"BBL = great range (at least the same range of a Springfield Armory M1A "Socom-II" or "Socom-16"); .7'62x51mm-NATO using FN FAL magazines = great availability of ammunitions and mags.

On the contrary, shooting a Kel-Tec RFB inside an APC = instant deafness for you and all the other squaddies.

[JCoyote]

I think this is a good project to try to put in a new intermediate cartridge. The barrel length is just going to turn anything 5.56mm into garbage for hitting power. It seems paradoxical but I think this might be the place for 6.5 chamberings. They retain energy so well the limitations of breakup will hit them last. So a short barrel with rifle cartridge doesn't automatically suck.

I'd go with an RFB or FN2000 in one 6.5mm cartridge or another.

[PT-The Italian Commie]

Originally Posted by JCoyote

I think this is a good project to try to put in a new intermediate cartridge. The barrel length is just going to turn anything 5.56mm into garbage for hitting power. It seems paradoxical but I think this might be the place for 6.5 chamberings. They retain energy so well the limitations of breakup will hit them last. So a short barrel with rifle cartridge doesn't automatically suck.

I'd go with an RFB or FN2000 in one 6.5mm cartridge or another.

Okay, but then, I still say that the intermediate cartridge should become general issue. In a theater of combat operations, you'll simply have too much logistic troubles in supplying troops when different units use different ammunitions of such an enormous number of kinds. Think about the Axis troops in World War 2: they used such an enormous plethora of gun models, either made in their homelands or confiscated from the Armies of the invaded Countries, that they had enormous supplying problems for the entire conflict.

Truth is that, assuming that a gun can be made to achieve good results in recoil and full-auto controllability, NATO might even turn back to .7'62x51mm...

[JCoyote]

Me too, but this is a "foot in the door" situation. Get the cartridge in, in good numbers, let people see what it can do even from a small gun... the rest takes care of itself.

[Mk23]

Seems like the requirement that brought about that KAC 6x35mm PDW weapon I saw at the SHOT show.

[UZI4U]

Originally Posted by PT-The Italian Commie

Think about the Axis troops in World War 2: they used such an enormous plethora of gun models, either made in their homelands or confiscated from the Armies of the invaded Countries, that they had enormous supplying problems for the entire conflict.

The United States had four different longarm cartridges during WWII, and we had pretty much no supply problems.

Give me American supply, German weapons, British officers, Japanese soldiers and Israel's G-d, and I'll take over the world.

[PT-The Italian Commie]

Originally Posted by Mk23

Seems like the requirement that brought about that KAC 6x35mm PDW weapon I saw at the SHOT show.

Maybe. But again, the KAC PDW is too large for the requirements (remember: "Larger than a pistol, smaller than a carbine"). If you ask me, the thing is done to award a huge US Military contract either to FN (P-90), H&K (MP7) or to bring back the "stubbier" version of the defunct XM8.