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  #11  
Old 05-10-2006
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Kthulhu Kthulhu is offline
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Damn it. Had a nice response written up, and then my system reboots on me right after I hit "Submit".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chahta
Yes, the Flag is just a piece of cloth, much as the Constitution is just a piece of paper and ink. But, The Flag is the Symbol of our Nation. It is a symbol that represents those "ideals" of which you spoke. The Flag is a Symbol of those rights and freedoms of which you spoke. And to trample upon that Physical Symbol (the Flag) is the same as trampling on those rights of which you wrote.

Well, it can disrespect our rights, but it doesn't affect them. You and I can still put up our own flags. The day when we can't fly any flags at all, anywhere in the country, is the day that we should be upset. And that day won't come about from actions like this; I would even argue that the referenced flag display keeps that day further away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chahta
To trample on the flag is the same as trampling on the pride of a Great nation (and regardless of what the liberal media wants us to believe, this nation is still the greatest and most desired nation in the world.)

And if you know that, then why should this flag bother you? There are "Negative Nellies" in all aspects of life, and your pride in the nation shouldn't be affected by them. Otherwise, how much pride do you really have, and how secure are you in it, that one mildly egregious display of flag despoilment assaults it?

This flag makes me proud that people are still willing to be, well, American and speak out when they think something is wrong.

[quote=Chahta] To trample on that Symbol of our Freedoms is the same as saying, "I don't care about your freedoms and rights or those that have died defending those rights and freedoms."

Or it says, "I don't approve of the actions being taken under the representation of this flag". Which can be its own form of caring about the freedoms, rights, and ideals that the flag represents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chahta
To despoil that Symbol, that piece of cloth, is the same as slapping a man in an American Military Uniform and then telling him that you have the right to do so simply because you too are an American.

An assault on one's sensibilities is not the same as an assault on one's self. C'mon, if feelings are playing into this, then you're just being a liberal pantywaist .

Additionally, none of us can speak for all service members and veterans - some would be angry at this flag, others would shrug, and some would even say, "Right on!".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chahta
Yes, you have the right to voice your opinion, and, yes, even to buy a Flag and display it as you want,(& don't forget why and how you have that right) but, don't you DARE call those of us that respect that Symbol enough to defend it, "locksteping Nazis."

Poorly rendered metaphor on my part. My point was that we, as Americans, do not have to think in lockstep like the Nazis did. There is no authority that is mandating we think and act a certain way, on threat of punishment. As such, we can fly the flag proudly, in shame, or even not at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chahta
The Swastika (Symbol) of those Nazis was almost an exact opposite of what the Stars and Bars represent. No comparison.

Of course not. The Nazis would have mandated total respect for the flag, on pain of death. And that's partly why I support and have no problem with this flag - because sometimes what you love can destroy you (i.e. the Nazis and their extreme nationalism leading to their conquest and downfall), and sometimes you must destroy what you love (i.e. the American Civil War).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chahta
As for the man that took that flag down (in the above picture); in my opinion, he was just rescuing it from a shameful display.

And the person who made it was trying to rescue it from, in their view, being used in shameful actions.

Please computer, don't eat this...
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  #12  
Old 05-10-2006
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UZI4U UZI4U is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Durden
If you think I'm entertaining, read this: (Warning, you may want to double up on your meds before you click)

http://www.michaelmoore.com/mustread/index.php?id=642

More like double up on my bullshit-boots and raincoat, Michael Moore, Mister Gun Control Fatass. You'll lose your credibility around here really fast mentioning his name, even with those who would otherwise agree with you [PT: Call your office].

Will you or will you not answer my questions?
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  #13  
Old 05-10-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Durden
No.

What's the matter? Afraid I'll show your "Bush Liieeeeeeed!" claims to be a load of crap?

Quote:
Are you saying Rummy didn't lie about the two trailers?

Are you saying there were no WMD trailers in Iraq?

Quote:
Here is proof that some people can only think in terms of black and white. Can you not distinguish between a small lie and a big lie?

First off, a lie under oath is the worst kind of lie possible, if you understood our legal system, you might grasp that.

Second, what 'big lie' are you talking about? I thought you just admitted Saddam had WMDs a few posts ago?

Did he have them, and thus Bush was right, or did he not have them, and thus Bush was wrong? Make up your mind!

Or better yet, just pick ONE of the voices in your head and stick to it.


Quote:
Like I've said before Clintion wrecked a dress, Bush wrecked a country (well, many countries).

Funny, the economy of the United States, which you Bush Haters™ where yelling and screaming about for the last five years, is reaching record highs. Seems to me the United States is doing pretty good.

Iraq is doing better each day, and a large majority of Iraqis think their country is going to be better thanks to the removal of Saddam.

Afghanistan, needless to say, is doing excellent.

It seems to me those are the only countries Bush has really had any effect on, and they're all better off now than when he took office.

Quote:
Yes. it's a fact. Deal with it.

No, Bush won the 2000 election, that's a fact, deal with it.

But unlike you, I provide some sources for my claims:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election%2C_2000#The_Florida_Bal lot_Project_recounts

Please note that with all the recounts allowed by Florida state law, Bush wins by 430 votes.

Even with the illegal recounts Gore requested, Bush would have won by 225 votes.

The only way to get Gore to win, is to violate Florida state law by recounting in counties that were not within the recount maragin.

Are you willing to violate the law to make sure 'your guy' gets into office? Power at any price, Comrade Tyler?


Quote:
You would discredit my sources. Micheal moore, Cindy Sheehan, etc. You don't like them because they point out the ugly truth.

Your sources discredit themselves, must I post a list of all the lies Michael Moore has made in his films?

You also seem to forget where you are, this is a firearms board, using Micheal Moore, one of the biggest backers of gun-control in the country, to support your arguments is a good way to ensure no one listens to you, including those on the Left here.

Cindy Sheehan has also made numerous well documented lies, should I post a list of those as well?

Do you really want to back your ideals with proven liars? You seem to make a big deal out of 'lies', even 'lies' that have been proven to be true, yet you use proven liars as sources?

Quote:
And it still wasn't enough to overcome the brainwashing and fearmongering that had been done.

So it's okay for people to suppress others right to vote, as long as it's to overcome what you see as 'brainwashing and fearmongering'?!?

And it's funny, you take what proven liars say as facts, then you call everyone else brainwashed... Projection much?

Quote:
You are probably right, I don't bother to think about whether or not what the Devil did is right or wrong.

"Bush is the Anti-Christ!!!1!11!!1one!"


Quote:
He's an idiot with an agenda.

It's so ironic to hear that coming from you.

Quote:
God talks to him.

And George Washington said almost the exact same thing, must I quote all the times he claimed to have heard from G-d?

Quote:
FYI that would fall under delusional schizophrenia.

So did George Washington also suffer from delusional schizophrenia?

Quote:
You really like that one, don't you?


I like it because it's true.

Quote:
What, did you just finish up Phsyc101 last semester?

Nope, psychology was a few degrees ago.

And one has to wonder why you took a break over the last few weeks... It wouldn't have anything to do with final exams, would it?

Quote:
So you ingore children until they go into a fit to get your attention?

Nope, I ignore them even when they go into a fit to get my attention. Not my kids, not my problem, unless they start breaking laws.

Quote:
That's exactly why terrorist to what they do. They get trampled on, ignored and dismissed.

And G-d knows that's a perfectly good reason to kill thousands of innocent people, cut off heads, and blow up children.

Is there any group of people you whose genitals you won't suck, if it helps your agenda?

Quote:
The only way to make a statement to somebody who ignores you in a way that they might listen to is through the use of terrorism.

Oh dear G-d! Why didn't I see it before! The terrorists only kill women and children because they didn't get gumdrops as kids! Those poor deprived people!

It amazes me you'll actually make up excuses for atrocities committed by our enemies, yet at the same time make up false atrocity claims and blame those on us.

Thanks for letting everyone know which side you're on.

Quote:
Unfortunately terrorism works, and it sounds like your attutude toward children you are part of the problem.

Children that are not mine are not my responsibility, thus I am under no obligation to lift a finger when one throws a tantrum. In fact doing anything about it would be wrong, because it would be interfering with the childs parents right to raise their child as they see fit.

That's called responsibility and individual ownership, two concepts that are obviously alien to you.

Quote:
Oh, and that Liberatarian thing? It pretty much looks like a way for some Republicans to break away to make a kinder gentler party.

Funny, most Libertarians are Democrat refugees, who decided to join another party when you and your kind decided to kick the DNC into a port tailspin.

Quote:
Just becuase you put to word liberty in your party name doesn't mean squat. From my quick read of thier site, it all looks very suspicous.

You're right, those tricky Libertarians are out to get us! Quickly! Into the reeducation camps with them!

Quote:
Some of it I agee with, some of it I don't.

And thus it must be some kind of plot by Karl Rove to suck you into a different party where he can drug you and throw you into the Halliburton oil mines...

Quote:
I try to not have a political affiliation.

My g-d, that's funny.


Quote:
I simply use the "golden rule" to drive my thoughts and actions.

The 'golden rule', which probably reads "How can I blame this on Bush?"

Quote:
Again, if you have any Ritalin left you might want to mix up a little cocktail before you start reading. Just trying to widen your view because I know none of this would every make it to Fox News.:

For one thing, I've never taken Ritalin in my life, nor prescribed it to anyone, although I'd probably make an exception for you.

For another, I don't drink, I see no reason to put a theif in my mouth to steal my brains. You probably don't have to worry about that, however.

Also, my view is more than wide enough already, I get most of my news from the BBC. I also read the WSJ, MSNBC and CNN daily, I even read the New York Times fairly often.

When was the last time you, intentionally, read a media outlet besides Michael Moore Online or MorOn.org?

And lastly, I'd like you to explain to me just what it is about Fox News that made you issue a Fatwah against it and declare Jihad. You have heard that the owner of Fox News is hosting one of Hillary Clintons political fundraisers, haven't you?





Just answer this one, simple qestion: What Will It Take For You To Admit Saddam Had WMDS? A Sarin Gas Shell? Ten Mustard Gas Shells? A Thousand VX Gas Shells? A Biological Weapons Plant? A Ton Of Enriched Uranium? A Dozen ICBMs? Just What Would It Take?

What is your answer?

Last edited by UZI4U : 05-10-2006 at 05:41 PM.
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  #14  
Old 05-10-2006
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Chahta Chahta is offline
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"This flag makes me proud that people are still willing to be, well, American and speak out when they think something is wrong."

Uh, isn't that exactly what I did? I think it is wrong to display the American Flag in this manner. I said so and you took a pot shot at me for it.
"All of it, I'm pretty sure, violates flag protocol and decorum. Got some outrage over that?"
The thing is, all this is like a two-edged sword, it cuts both ways. You have your views and opinions and you also have the right to express them. I too have those same rights and privledges. However, my views and opinions come from a time before all this politically correct BS. I'll be the first to admit I AM NOT PC. I grew up in a time when respect was earned, not givin. Nor was it expected by those that had not earned it. Respect for that flag and what it stood for was understood because most of those my age had friends or family that had served under that flag and died for it and what it stood for.
"Additionally, none of us can speak for all service members and veterans - some would be angry at this flag, others would shrug, and some would even say, "Right on!".
"

You are right but, in all my life, I've known of only one such Veteran that would say "Right on!", and he wound up in Big Mac (not the Burger, the Prison).
"And the person who made it was trying to rescue it from, in their view, being used in shameful actions."
Doubtful. But, we'll probably never know.

And before I end this, I just want to point out that your P.O.V. sorta puts you on the same side as that Tyler Durden.....and he uses Michael Moore as a reference.......and we all know that MM's works are all fictional. (Sorry, couldn't resist. LOL) And besides, UZI4U is givin him what for. Sic 'em UZI4U !
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  #15  
Old 05-10-2006
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Kthulhu Kthulhu is offline
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My point of view is that it is wrong to steal another person's flag, just because you disagree with how they are using it. If someone stole a patriotic display because they disagreed with it, I'm sure you and the rest of the forum would, rightfully, be up in arms about it. I would be, also, because that is censorship - which isn't right, regardless of it being done by a government or individual.
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  #16  
Old 05-11-2006
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Default Heh

It's a damaged flag.

Flag protocol (which is actually part of Federal Code) dictates that it should be burned.

I personally wouldn't have stolen it. I most likely would have shown up at their doorstep in uniform with a can of lighter fluid, a book of matches, and a few nasty looks followed by a few "suggestions" that they show a little respect and dispose of it properly.

If they refused, then I would consider coming back later and stealing it.

Don't like it? Fuck you.
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  #17  
Old 05-11-2006
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I *AM* a Libertarian and I am a very vocal critic of the entire administration and the iraq war.
Afghanistan was perhaps slightly more excusable, but Iraq was a huge mistake.

I don't want to turn this into a flame war at all. I am just saying that Tyler, while I think you are trying to fuck with people, I do understand and see your points, and mostly agree.
I hate Michael Moore not because of his take on the war, but because he is a statist, and a propagandist.
So yes, I am a person who doesnt like Moore, supports drug legalization and legalizing gay marriage, loves firearms and thinks even the NFA should be repealed, and is fiscally conservative.

www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html
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  #18  
Old 05-11-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacon Guy
I personally wouldn't have stolen it. I most likely would have shown up at their doorstep in uniform with a can of lighter fluid, a book of matches, and a few nasty looks followed by a few "suggestions" that they show a little respect and dispose of it properly.

Put 'em back in your pants, tough guy. You'll be on the police scanners for intimidation in no time, and you might even (long shot, I know) be on the receiving end of a 12 gauge.

All over a flag. Way to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacon Guy
If they refused, then I would consider coming back later and stealing it.

Don't like it? Fuck you.

Doesn't bother me. The law (don't trespass or steal the property of others), basic morality (don't steal the property of others), and the ideals of America (the right to free speech and dissent) all support my view, and that's more than you have with your emotional crybaby justifications for thuggery.
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  #19  
Old 05-11-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Durden
I think I've heard arguements in the vain of "Natural selection" implying that those that can't take care of themselves should be left to die.

A bigger flaw in that argument, too, is that people will just up and die. Many people will cheat, steal, and kill if they get desperate enough. It's not in the best interest of society (and hell, the pursuit of happiness) to allow conditions of that nature to occur.
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  #20  
Old 05-11-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Durden
Capitalism can work I think, but not in it's current untethered, corrupt state.
http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-sco...eral-orgs.html

You THINK Capitalism can work? Name one country where anything else works BETTER than Capitalism.
We have three new members here from Russia maybe they will chime in.

Last edited by TJ : 05-11-2006 at 05:39 PM.
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