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  #11  
Old 08-05-2007
Mk23 Mk23 is offline
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Default Re: Ya just gotta love the Marine corp double tap!

I don't think I could tell whether he's disabled enough that he can't reach into his pocket and pull a pin, flip a switch, or hit a button.

So honestly, I'd just shoot them.
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  #12  
Old 08-05-2007
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Exclamation I agree.

I am afraid that, as usual, my post has been misinterpreted due to the different points of view, typically European Vs. typically American.

On one hand, I fully understand the requirements and the situations that a soldier on the battlefield might be forced to face.

On the other hand, I can't agree with the military blurb quited by Dolphin_Shooter in his post, impregnated as it is with a strongly political vision, once again typically American, which would let pass the idea that "we" should be able to fight "them" prolly doing whatever we want. Including summary executions and murder of civilians (which Bacon states we "do not", while evidences and trials against US military personnel have fully demonstrated to have happened on large scale in both theatres of operation), kidnap and torture (which once again Bacon states we "do not", while once again have been proved to be in full-scale use in the "war on terror", see Guantanamo, Abu Grahib, and the case of the Imam Abu Omar kidnapped by the CIA in Milan with the complicity of the SISMI directed by the right-wing government of Silvio Berlusconi, then in charge). Such a strategy will absolutely NOT help "us" one little bit in winning the war. Not only, it will make us loose it on a MORAL scale, since "we" will become no better than the same criminals "we" are fighting.

On a side note, again regarding the strong political connotation of that blurb: tell me if you think that it's legitimate for the Military to have and/or to waive such political positions. I think it should not. Because the Military is there to serve the STATE, and they have to do it whatever the Government is, as long as the Government is legitimate (not dictatorial) and no matter what the political position is. That's the problem which we had in the past in Italy with the Police services, the Armed Forces and the Secret Services: deeply infiltrated as them were (with the American placed) of Right-wing and Christian-Democratic elements, their actions were engaged NOT in protecting the State, but in ensuring stability of Government when it was of the political side that they supported, in the meanwhile trying in every way to take damage to Left-wing leaders and sympathizers and destabilize Left-wing governments and/or prevent participation of the Left wing to government. It's something that one could expect in the Third World, not in a so-called "western Democracy". One way to prevent this is to make the Military, the Law Enforcement and all the Security-Intelligence services to be entities totally out of politics. They obey orders when them are legitimate, period. And on a side note, it's not up to them to arbitrarly decide whether the orders that they receive are legitimate or not.
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  #13  
Old 08-05-2007
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Default Re: Ya just gotta love the Marine corp double tap!

Signore Expert Gunwriter,

Why do you lie so much?

Hatred?

Jealousy?

Ignorance?

It's so clear you haven't a leg to stand on. You use terms like 'large scale' to refer to isolated incidents- of course, never citing even one specific incident. Of course, in order for you to spout nonsense like this, you MUST ignore the prosecutions that take place whenever an ACTUAL incident like this takes place. For your edification, stronzo, people have been sent to jail for putting panties on people's heads- which is something people pay to have done to them by prostitutes.

(General rule- if people pay to have something done to them, or college kids do it as initiation to a team or fraternity, it is most EMPHATICALLY NOT torture, Professore Commendatore Dottore Gunwriter.)

I swear- it's like arguing with a 12-year old hyperactive kid, who's been inhaling paint fumes from a plastic bag, instead of taking his Adderal. I start to wonder if we're even in the same universe.

Please- I BEG you- point out the 'typical American' 'political' slant of the article DS quoted.

Is it a 'typical American' thing to want to survive combat? I assure, if there were such thing as an Italian soldier, they'd be taught the same thing- regardless of whether or not your soon-to-be-removed Commie asshole Prodi were in office or not.

Let's make a bet- I'm interested to see if there can be a discussion of current events- war-related or not- without PT taking the stance of "American versus European Ideals", or "right-wing"- anything.

My bet is he can't- it's all they teach in Europe's salons. How to be a jealous, lying, reactionary.

They certainly don't teach logic, rhetoric, ethics, or law.- that's for damn sure.

I have to say- fundamental dishonesty coupled with shoddy preparation makes for a really boring opponent.
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Last edited by Bacon Guy : 08-05-2007 at 03:29 PM.
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  #14  
Old 08-05-2007
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Default yea like we need to de stabilize a left wing government

why in the hell would we need to do that? They do a decent job without our help..My only bitch about bush's war is we've not purseing it near aggressively enough.Get these worthless political hack generals the hell out,
and cut the ropes and restraints off our spec op guys. Watch how quickly things turn around.
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  #15  
Old 08-05-2007
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Default Re: Ya just gotta love the Marine corp double tap!

DS,

Call that shit what it is, brother- paranoid nonsense. Somwhow, when you live in a shrinking world full of signs that your belief system is an awful, barren mistake, everything has the US behind it. That overcooked pasta PT's mommy served him last night? Rove's fault.

Side note- It's not "Bush's War". It's all of ours- including the peaceniks- whether they like it or not. We live in a representative democracy where our representatives act on all our behalf, whether we chose them or not, and whether we agree with them or not.

"Bush's War" is part and parcel of the ridiculous and anti-Democratic 'Chickenhawk' slur, which is ironically used by hippies and peaceniks, even though if the only ones qualified to advocate force were military members themselves, said hippies and peaceniks would find themselves living in their greatest nightmare- a military Junta. At the very least, it would rule out pacifist morons like Dennis Kookcinich from holding high office. At worst- by logical extension- ordinary citizens wouldn't be allowed to advocate using the main tool of foreign policy.

Not the Democracy our forefathers envisioned.
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  #16  
Old 08-05-2007
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Default When did the Marines get so pussified?

That's why God made bayonets. Save bullets for something more worthy.
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  #17  
Old 08-06-2007
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Default Re: Ya just gotta love the Marine corp double tap!

I'm more with Yankee and PT on this. In a lot of ways, it's simply wasteful to kill off a terrorist.

Let's be honest, these guy WANT to get killed in a lot of cases. Taking them alive isn't always easy. It makes sense to take them alive at any opportunity given the way those networks work. Killing a captive is destroying a resource, as well as unprofessional and inhuman.
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  #18  
Old 08-06-2007
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Default Re: Ya just gotta love the Marine corp double tap!

Yes another thing you have to understand. When you blow a guy away you're killing possible intel. Don't get me wrong, if he's armed and I have a good sight picture, he's a dead man. If he's wounded or no longer willing to fight then he's a prisoner with rights, and possibly some VERY important intel.

But I can agree with the theory that we have been way too soft in some cases. In my opinion ANY building in a warzone is fair game unless it is occupied by civilian non-combatants. If you dig into a mosque, tuff shit we bomb it. It's that simple. This politically correct bullshit is getting good men killed.
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  #19  
Old 08-07-2007
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Default Re: Ya just gotta love the Marine corp double tap!

I'm going to have to disagree.

As a priority, the safety of troops is paramount. That outweighs the intel that may be obtained from low-level footsoldiers. Secondly, there's nothing inhumane or unprofessional about it. Geneva says we can execute illegal combatants on the battlefield. What's inhumane is to let one of these people die in the festering filth and heat of an Iraqi BZ, at the mercy of their fellow savages- and I don't give a crap if these deluded bastards think they're getting 72 virgins.

If taking these guys into custody gets someone killed, how is it worth it? They want to wound as many of us as possible, because dead men don't have to get carried back to base.

Tzahal has it right- when they apprehend these types, they make them strip themselves naked before the flex-cuffs go on.
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"Conservative, n, A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others."- Ambrose Bierce's "Devil's Dictionary (1911)"



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  #20  
Old 08-07-2007
Mk23 Mk23 is offline
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Default Re: Ya just gotta love the Marine corp double tap!

Well, putting myself in the shoes of the Marines there... (...still bitter...)


Like I said, these guys aren't wort the lives of my fellow Marines.

But if someone gives the order that the possible intel /IS/ worth the lives of fellow Marines...

Then it is. Because combat's fucking complex enough without having to THINK about it for yourself.
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