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  #1  
Old 02-01-2008
Grenadier Toebanger Grenadier Toebanger is offline
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Default TKB-022 bullpup mechanisim

Found a possible mechanisim of the TKB-022 bullpup rifle, Once and for all?





Original Source:
http://www.strzelecka.net/viewtopic....9f63 130f94bc

Last edited by Grenadier Toebanger : 02-01-2008 at 03:39 PM.
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  #2  
Old 08-20-2008
Grenadier Toebanger Grenadier Toebanger is offline
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Default TKB-022PM bullpup mechanisim: FINALLY Confirmed

Quote:
The line of TKB-022 experimental assault rifles is one of most intrigying developments in small arms, made in Soviet Union. In many respects these weapons, designed during early sixties by Soviet gun designer G. A. Korobov were many years ahead of its time. Those guns were simply too advanced for conservative-thinking Soviet Army officers who preferred simple, familiar, proven and reliable Kalashnikov assault rifles over anything else. Regardless of thst, the TKB-022 is well worth mentioning, if just for the sake of curiosity.
TKB stands for Tulskoe Kosntructorskoe Buro - Tula Design Bureau, an arms-designing organisation associated with Tula arms factory (TOZ), which later evolved into the KBP - large and famous arms design and manufacturing state-owned company. Korobov was one of the more advanced designers at KBP, and he always tried to step ahead of its time. In this case, he tried to create a compact weapon, suitable for motorized troops riding in cramped armored personnel carriers (BMP, BTR) or helicopters. Despite very compact size, this weapon retained full-length barrel (and thus effective range and lethality) of much longer standard assault rifles such as Kalashnikov AKM. In fact, TKB-022 has best barrel length to overall length ratio among most military rifles ever built. During mid- to late sixties Korovov produced several variations of the TKB-022, from TKB-022PM to TKB-022PM5. The last one, the TKB-022PM5, which was produced in 1968, was chambered for then-experimental 5.6x39 ammunition (which latter evolved into 5.45x39). All weapons were tested by Soviet army, but turned down on unpublished reasons (most probably becuse the gun was simple too advanced for contemporary military thinking, but also possibly because no-one at the time could tell for sure if plastic housing would hold its integrity in extreme weather conditions or during many years of storage or use).

The TKB-022 assault rifle is gas-operated weapon with annular gas piston located around the barrel. To achieve minimum length, it is assembled into bull-pup configuration and uses vertically sliding bereech block (bolt), rather than traditional and most common bolt that cycles back and forth. Since the movement of the bolt (breechblock) in this design cannot be used to extract, eject and load cartridges, Korobov developed a special U-shaped rammer / extractor, that strips the frech cartridge from magazine, pushes it into the chamber, then, after the discharge, pulls the fired cartridge case back from the chamber. Upon feeding the next fresh cartridge, the fired case is pushed forward and slightly up, into the ejection chute above the barrel. Spent cases finally fell off the gun above the muzzle. Gun was capable of full- and semi-automatic fire, with combined safety / fire mode selector switch located above the trigger on the left side of the gun. The gun housing was made from reddish-brown plastic, with metall structure hidden inside.

Original Source: http://world.guns.ru/assault/as94-e.htm
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  #3  
Old 08-21-2008
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PT-The Italian Commie PT-The Italian Commie is offline
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Default

So G'ddamn complicated I can clearly see why the Soviets didn't wanted it...
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Old 08-21-2008
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Default Re: TKB-022 bullpup mechanisim

uhm....your drawing displays bottom ejection, however, the TKB uses an upper ejection...as the segment you quote from worldguns clearly states:
Quote:
Upon feeding the next fresh cartridge, the fired case is pushed forward and slightly up, into the ejection chute above the barrel. Spent cases finally fell off the gun above the muzzle.
Not unlike the newer Keltec bullpups or FN2000 I should note.
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Old 08-22-2008
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Red face Them work pretty differently one another.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armorer
Not unlike the newer Keltec bullpups or FN2000 I should note.

The FN F-2000 is simpler than that. It basically ejects in a standard manner, the only difference is that it doesn't ejects the spent case directly but in a channel that runs parallel to the barrel. The Kel-Tec RFB instead uses a special extractor-elevator to eject the spent cases in a channel that runs OVER the barrel.



In both cases the extracted cases are then pushed forward down to their chute both by the action of the nomal stresses that a gun experiments (recoil energy, some gas), and by the pressure of other spent cases behind them. It should be noted however that the advantage of the FN F-2000 over the Kel-Tec RFB is that the F-2000 in fact DOES gives direct access to the chamber (through the in-famous "Toilet Seat cover"), while the Kel-Tec RFB doesn't and the only ways to clear a loaded chamber are either to shoot the round out or remove the magazine and open the bolt to let the cartridge fall down from the magazine well.

Both the RFB and the F-2000 are however less complicated than the TKB-022.

Currently there's another less-than-known forward-ejecting bull-pup rifle, and this too is Russian: the KBP A-91M, manufacured either in 7'62x39mm and 5'56x45mm, and this is the simplest of them all: the ejection port is located above the pistol grip, beneath the carrying handle, and points forward. Extracted cases are fed from bolt head through the short ejection tube to the ejection port, and fall out of the gun well clear of the shooter's face
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  #6  
Old 08-22-2008
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Default Re: TKB-022 bullpup mechanisim

That said, all of these designs do share the same potential complication, that a fired case could jam in the ejection tube, via dirt or whatnot, and that they generally require the return spring to provide most of the energy for removing the cases from the gun.

Traditional firearms remove the casing from the gun on the immediate energy of bolt movement, these mechanisms instead store that energy and then try to use it later to remove the casing from the gun. This is always more complicated, and does add a new part to fail, in addition to all the traditional components that can still fail.

Now you can break not only the extractor, you can break the tilt mechanism attached to the extractor, or the ramming motion that it then performs, or the ejection tube, or just have bad case that warps/deforms when hot and wedges the tube.

All of these rifles are sacrificing reliability to gain ambidexterity. I'd rather create a bullpup that had a "cheek rest" that had to be pushed to one side or the other for right or left handed shooting, and switched the side of the ejection by doing so. This way there would be 2 traditional AK style fixed extractors, on a toggle so only 1 can engage the bolt at a time depending on the switch. The cheek rest would prevent you from getting a site picture unless pushed to the proper side.
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Old 08-22-2008
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Default Re: TKB-022 bullpup mechanisim

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCoyote
I'd rather create a bullpup that had a "cheek rest" that had to be pushed to one side or the other for right or left handed shooting, and switched the side of the ejection by doing so. This way there would be 2 traditional AK style fixed extractors, on a toggle so only 1 can engage the bolt at a time depending on the switch. The cheek rest would prevent you from getting a site picture unless pushed to the proper side.

This is a great solution that nobody had so far thought of (or so it seems, at least nobody has implemented it), but I always thought it to be great. Think about it: a bull-pup rifle that has a switching cheekpiece over the receiver; when you need to shoot from the left or right shoulder, you just operate it to cover the ejection port you DON'T need; internally, it will disconnect it and engage the other one. If somebody out there has some skills in technical design, an outline drawing would help to get an idea...
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