This Day in History

Daily Cartoon provided by Bravenet

  #11  
Old 06-09-2006
PT-The Italian Commie's Avatar
PT-The Italian Commie PT-The Italian Commie is offline
Super Senior member - Has no life and spends a lot of time here
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sardinia, Italy
Posts: 2,611
Default What really sucks...

...is how could people who have decisional power catalogue airsoft as WEAPONS. In Italy, the law categorizes Airsofts as TOYS, or NON-WEAPONS, just like de-activated guns and airguns with muzzle energy not exceeding 7,5 Joules.
The said airguns are available to anybody only past 18 years of age (and the seller will make sure of your age asking you to show a valid ID document, but, unlike all firearm sales, it will -NOT- be registered by the seller and you will -NOT- be forced to register the "gun" within 24 hours at the local police station); while airguns with muzzle energy exceeding 7,5 Joules are categorized under all intents and purposes just like firearms, and the purchase or detention of them requires a firearms license of any kind.

But the Airsofts and the deactivated guns are TOYS. Them can be bought by anybody, at any age, and detained with no restrictions whatsoever. By law, Airsoft replicas are those toy guns which expel a plastic pellet with a muzzle energy not exceeding 1 Joule. The fact that them are firearm-lookalike or military-lookalike doesn't means anything. The law states that them must be sold with the muzzle painted in red, this paint has to be applicated by the manufacturer (if them are made in Italy) or the importer (if made abroad), but the ultimate holder can take it off anyhow and it is no felony, exception made if the replica is later used to commit a crime (in that case, the man is charged and trialed just like if he had used a real gun); it's also illegal to modify the Airsoft in a way that makes its muzzle energy exceed 1 Joule, but nothing more: the Airsoft replicas can be freely carried concealed (what normally requires a Firearm Carry license that's rarely granted in Italy), and it's not "abusive firearm carry", because... it's NOT a firearm! Obviously, people should NOT carry it open, and should also watch out for others not to see that he's carrying, because that might procurate alarm, which IS a felony. But I used to carry airsofts concealed on me since when I was 12 (what to say... I -AM- a gun-nut! ), but who cares? I just trained for the future!

Last tip about Italian laws about the topic: "Paintball" is forbidden to civilians. No specifically paintball "guns" or anything similar is imported here: the "Paintball" is practiced only with "Simunitions" and things like that, that's to be fired with real guns, and this kind of training is reserved to Law Enforcement and Military only. Civilians wishing to do paintball can buy 6mm Colour pellets to be used in Airsofts.
__________________
"It is criminal to teach a man not to defend himself, when he is the constant victim of brutal attacks. It is legal and lawful to own a shotgun or a rifle. We believe in obeying the law." -- Malcolm X

"We (atheists) act in good conscience because we believe in moral principles, not because we expect a reward in Heaven." -- Margherita Hack

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-09-2006
Armorer's Avatar
Armorer Armorer is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Hahira, Ga.
Posts: 360
Send a message via AIM to Armorer
Default

See--
step one: kid points semi realistic looking toy gun at a cop.
step two: cop seeing distinctive outline fires.
step three: sue the city, problem obviously child's toy.
step four: ban all realistic looking toy guns.

There was a time you could buy toys that looked like real guns.
For example, in the early 80's, Transformer's head badguy, Megatron, convertd into a Walther P38.
Japan's last transformer revolution saw a complete recast of the old toy line...however..you could not buy megatron in the united states. Furthermore, importing one was banned.

Now, any mock firearm requires you to have the tip painted blazing orange. This includes airsoft in most regions.

Now riddle me this--
what kills more college per annum in the U.S.
Violence involing weapons or alcohol?

I've yet to be on a campus where alcoholic beverages were not barred from dormitories.
Likewise, I've yet to have been on a campus where a cursory glance in any most dorm rooms or window sills where alcoholic containers weren't visible.
Hell, my friend's R.A. in his dorm had a bottle of frigging Absinthe that sat on his desk and a budweiser sign hanging over his room window with the note attached, "Party here."

Furthermore,
I know of several college campuses that bar supersoakers for the risk of putting acid in them.
...
So a beer bong is ok, but the one in one million odd chances some irate lab geek is gonna hose a crowd with acid is too great.

I can understand banning something like potato guns for the flame ignition system, but they don't ban model rocketry.

now UZI's gonna be pissed that i suggested that.

But seriously. If fireworks aren't banned on most campuses, wtf is a paintball gun or airsoft toy gonna be more harmful?

To rog and PT-- no paintball?! forget it-- i'm not moving there now. Limited ammo and weapons are one thing, next thing you know they'll be banning video games.
__________________

Quote:
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping a human face...forever" ~George Orwell
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-09-2006
UZI4U's Avatar
UZI4U UZI4U is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: San Antonio, Texas.
Posts: 890
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armorer
I can understand banning something like potato guns for the flame ignition system, but they don't ban model rocketry.

now UZI's gonna be pissed that i suggested that.

Not really, it makes a lot more sense.

One thing I learned very quickly about model rocketry is how dangerous it can be. A model rocket pointed in the wrong direction is little more than a ballistic missile without a warhead.

I've seen large model rockets have parachute deployment failures... when they hit the dirt they burried themselves over a foot and a half into the ground... That's TEXAS ground, dry as a bone and hard as concrete.

They can also set fire to almost anything.

That's why rocketeers are so paranoid about only launching in large, fairly empty, safe areas, where fires are unlikely. It's also why we work so hard on our launch pads to make them nearly impossible to tip over.

Banning model rocketry, like all bans, is pretty stupid... But at least it has a little common sense backing. They pose a large fire risk inside/around buildings, and in the event of an accident they can be very dangerous.

But airsofts are a risk............... How?

Unless you're some unlucky bastard who gets hit in the eye, you aren't going to be injured by an airsoft. You can also be equally injured in the eye by flying pencils and darts... I don't think those are banned from college campuses [or maybe I'm behind on the times].

Hell, a thrown baseball packs about a million times the energy of an airsoft pellet, last I checked those are still around.



The part that pisses me off the most, however, is the selective enforcment. You're totally right about beer/booze being all over college dorms, and no one seems to care. Hell I've known colleges that didn't care when they got reports about students using pot in the hallways between classes[!!!].

But don't you dare have a freaking TOY gun in your room, or you'll get arrested at gun point [there's some kind of sick irony to that], charged with a felony and expelled.



But one has to wonder... wouldn't signal flares be legal, being a mere 'firework'? They shoot over 500 feet and pack as much energy as a .17HMR, but they aren't a weapon .
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-09-2006
UZI4U's Avatar
UZI4U UZI4U is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: San Antonio, Texas.
Posts: 890
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PT-The Italian Commie
...is how could people who have decisional power catalogue airsoft as WEAPONS. In Italy, the law categorizes Airsofts as TOYS, or NON-WEAPONS, just like de-activated guns and airguns with muzzle energy not exceeding 7,5 Joules.
The said airguns are available to anybody only past 18 years of age (and the seller will make sure of your age asking you to show a valid ID document, but, unlike all firearm sales, it will -NOT- be registered by the seller and you will -NOT- be forced to register the "gun" within 24 hours at the local police station); while airguns with muzzle energy exceeding 7,5 Joules are categorized under all intents and purposes just like firearms, and the purchase or detention of them requires a firearms license of any kind.

*yawn*, I bought my first airsoft when I was 16, I didn't have to show any ID at all [hell, I didn't have an ID when I was 16], never got as much as a funny glance from the cashier and walked home with it.

Ah, to be a Texan.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-10-2006
PT-The Italian Commie's Avatar
PT-The Italian Commie PT-The Italian Commie is offline
Super Senior member - Has no life and spends a lot of time here
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sardinia, Italy
Posts: 2,611
Default Mistake...

Quote:
Originally Posted by UZI4U
I bought my first airsoft when I was 16, I didn't have to show any ID at all

In fact, you don't have to show an ID to buy an AIRSOFT. You have to show an ID to purchase an AIR GUN, which is DIFFERENT.

An AIRSOFT is a TOY, which uses many ways (spring-operated air piston, gas, CO2, battery-operated electric system, blasting cap, etc.) to "shoot" a PLASTIC PELLET of the diameter of 6mm or 8mm with LESS than 1 Joule of muzzle energy. The purchase of such items is RECOMMENDED (but not mandatory) only over 14, and no ID is required. The Airsoft toys can have a "toy" look, or be modeled or patterned after real-existing civilian or military guns; but this doesn't inflicts the fact that them are just TOYS.

An AIR GUN is an item that uses CO2, gas or spring-operated air piston to shoot out a METAL PELLET in .4'5mm or .177 caliber; those have a limited, but existing, capacity to inflict wounds, and are used on target practice for beginners or for hunting very small animals and kill infesters like rats, etc. Them are divided in two categories:
-LOW-POWERED (or "Free") AIRGUNS-: The muzzle energy developed at the moment of the shot doesn't exceeds 7,5 Joules. Those items can be acquired by anybody over 18 years of age; the seller is obligated by law to ask the purchaser to show an ID only to make sure of his age, but no registration or license is required for such purchase.
-HIGH-POWERED AIRGUNS-: The muzzle energy developed at the moment of the shot exceeds 7,5 Joules. The purchase, detention and use requires a firearms license and after the purchase them must be registered within 24 hours at the local police station, just like all firearms.
__________________
"It is criminal to teach a man not to defend himself, when he is the constant victim of brutal attacks. It is legal and lawful to own a shotgun or a rifle. We believe in obeying the law." -- Malcolm X

"We (atheists) act in good conscience because we believe in moral principles, not because we expect a reward in Heaven." -- Margherita Hack

Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-10-2006
RustyBayonet's Avatar
RustyBayonet RustyBayonet is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: England
Posts: 81
Default Damn, you can't do paintball in Europe?

That's wank, even in Britain you can happily spray your mate down with paintballs
__________________
"You are infantry, you are cannon fodder, get over it!" - Sgt. Maj. W. Wilkinson.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-10-2006
Kthulhu's Avatar
Kthulhu Kthulhu is offline
Super Senior member - Has no life and spends a lot of time here
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 203
Default

You probably can. I would bet (though I am not an expert on European firearms law) that paintball guns fall into a category different from that of actual firearms.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-10-2006
RustyBayonet's Avatar
RustyBayonet RustyBayonet is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: England
Posts: 81
Default Muzzle velocity probably

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kthulhu
You probably can. I would bet (though I am not an expert on European firearms law) that paintball guns fall into a category different from that of actual firearms.

I guess they are classed as air-weapons under British Law; air-pistols under 7 ft/lbs and air-rifles under 11 ft/lbs are classed as firearms, but do not require a license. 'Toys' like airsoft 'guns' have to be under 1ft/lb.
__________________
"You are infantry, you are cannon fodder, get over it!" - Sgt. Maj. W. Wilkinson.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-10-2006
Armorer's Avatar
Armorer Armorer is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Hahira, Ga.
Posts: 360
Send a message via AIM to Armorer
Default

British paintball teams are right nasty guys-- I've had a chance to meet some of the Manchester United players and found them outstanding players and sportsmen. Although, Stockholm Joy has given ya'lls teams a hearty run about during the NPPL series last two years in a row.
ya know, It's truly sad that even France as national teams, but Italy doesn't. But then again, the majority of the French players I've met are about as pro France as most of us.

BUT-- Isreal's team are quite frankly brutal on the field. A few of their players made it all the way to a big Viper scenerio in Texas last year hosted by Rooster Teeth productions to promote their series Red versus Blue. Even though the whole of the event was a bust, evidently the Isreali guys gave everyone a run for their money.

All of that aside--
it really pushes my buttons because any number of wanna be "jackass" fans post vids all over the place doing stupid sh*t. A majority of which I've seen have taken place in dorm rooms using markers (paintball guns) cranked up to excessive speeds in the 300fps range.
No insured paintball field in the U.S. allows for a marker to fire above 290fps. I've seen rounds moving in excess to 315fps shatter stuff like hoppers and pods...and most masks are only safety tested to speeds in and around 350fps.
The worst though was seeing a blackhawk knee pad take a hit at 390fps and shatter the plastic guard.
I've read enough professional articles arguing the bones will break at 410fps.

Yet the average airsoft round only moves in and around 200fps. The worst injury I've seen in my time playing was a direct hit to a thumb nail by a GBS (gas blowback system) at under 20 feet. Broke the nail severely, but that was it.
__________________

Quote:
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping a human face...forever" ~George Orwell
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-11-2006
PT-The Italian Commie's Avatar
PT-The Italian Commie PT-The Italian Commie is offline
Super Senior member - Has no life and spends a lot of time here
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sardinia, Italy
Posts: 2,611
Default A response to Rusty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyBayonet
Damn, you can't do Paintball in Europe?

First of all, when talking about "Europe", say "US" not "You". Your Country IS part of the EU. Get used to it and get along with it.

And there's no such thing as "European gun laws". Every single Country has its own legislation. Even in the event of the birth of the European Union as a political Confederation of States, with a full-power European government, the single Countries will still have their governments to make "internal" laws. The "European government" shall only be allowed to legiferate about matters of foreign policy, monetary economy, and defense, when those decisions cross the borders of the interests of the single member Countries and interest the entire Europe.

Second... it's not like we cannot do paintball. Those CO2-operated "guns" that are strictly made for paintball are not imported here in Italy; but if them where, them would unlikely been considered firearms. Paintball made using real-life firearms (like "Simunitions" training etc.) is allowed for the sole training of Military and LE, and thus forbidden to civilians. "Paintball" made using 6mm or 8mm colour/dye pellets to be used with Airsoft replicas is perfectly legal.
__________________
"It is criminal to teach a man not to defend himself, when he is the constant victim of brutal attacks. It is legal and lawful to own a shotgun or a rifle. We believe in obeying the law." -- Malcolm X

"We (atheists) act in good conscience because we believe in moral principles, not because we expect a reward in Heaven." -- Margherita Hack

Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright SecurityArms.com 1995 - 2009