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  #1  
Old 06-26-2006
JCoyote JCoyote is offline
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Default Historical Figures: give me your list

OK I'm working on a writing project (I'm not sure what the exact form the finished product will be yet) but for it I need a number of historical figures. I have a list of my own, but I would like a few from other perspectives.

What I would like from anyone who cares to contribute:

Your list of history's most evil people, and WHY they were evil.

The opposite, and why they were good.

And beyond that, anyone you find particularly interesting, why, whether you would call them good or bad or neutral, etc.

Anyway, I've been to Pickover's site so I know what he has. I've seen some of the discussion there, but I know there are some good students of history here.

Oh, also, Jesus and Buddha need not be mentioned for various reasons, and Hitler, Stalin, and Mao are just plain too obvious.

I'll give you guys about the top of my evil list: Mengele. He's a bit obvious to me, human experimentation and all... but it's amazing how often he gets missed.
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  #2  
Old 06-27-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCoyote
OK I'm working on a writing project (I'm not sure what the exact form the finished product will be yet) but for it I need a number of historical figures. I have a list of my own, but I would like a few from other perspectives.

What I would like from anyone who cares to contribute:

Your list of history's most evil people, and WHY they were evil.

The opposite, and why they were good.

And beyond that, anyone you find particularly interesting, why, whether you would call them good or bad or neutral, etc.

Anyway, I've been to Pickover's site so I know what he has. I've seen some of the discussion there, but I know there are some good students of history here.

Oh, also, Jesus and Buddha need not be mentioned for various reasons, and Hitler, Stalin, and Mao are just plain too obvious.

I'll give you guys about the top of my evil list: Mengele. He's a bit obvious to me, human experimentation and all... but it's amazing how often he gets missed.

The bad:

Adolf Hitler, lead the world down the path of socialism, and caused 50 million needless deaths as a result.

Joseph Stalin, lead the world down the path of socialism, caused 20-40 million needless deaths.

Xerxes I, madman who caused at least 50 million deaths and almost destroyed the concept of freedom and democracy forever.

Pharaoh Ramesses I, Personal Reasons.

Attila the Hun, nearly destroyed civilization by tipping Rome over the edge... But I could argue that Atilla was the symtom to a Roman disease.


The good:

King David of Israel, Personal Reasons.

Leonidas I, father of western civilization and the man who saved the concept of democratic government.

Samual Adams, the real man behind the American revolution.

Ronald Reagan, won the cold war, turned America into an economic and military giant, got rid of Carter.


Figures of note:

Plutarch, best historian in history.

Robert A Heinlein, for genius in human nature and the nature of their governments.

Charles Darwin, for discovering the theory which dooms the democratic party.



There are more but I need to get some rest.

Last edited by UZI4U : 06-27-2006 at 12:43 AM.
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  #3  
Old 06-27-2006
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Originally Posted by UZI4U
Adolf Hitler, lead the world down the path of socialism, and caused 50 million needless deaths as a result.

Hitler was NOT a socialist. He called his party "NSDAP" (National-socialist German Worker's Party) to appeal the electorate which would otherwise have voted for the left. But I challenge you to say that Hitler was a socialist.
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Old 06-27-2006
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Evil people are so much easier to come up with, why is that? Maybe something to write about?
A little list that could be made long...
Idi Amin (c. 1925 – August 16, 2003) President of Uganda (1971 to 1979)
Anton Szandor LaVey (1930—1997) founder of the Church of Satan
Saloth Sar (May 19, 1925 – April 15, 1998), better known as Pol Pot
Charles Milles Manson (born November 12, 1934) serial killer
Tomás de Torquemada (1420, Valladolid, Castile (present-day Spain)
Vlad Tepes - Vlad the Impaler (aka. Dracula)
Adolph Eichmann - Born in March 19, 1906,
Ivan the Terrible - Ivan Vasilyevich, (born Aug. 25, 1530)
Tallat Pasha Armenian holocaust designer
Nicolae Ceausescu Romanian dictator
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Old 06-27-2006
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For all the flavors of socialism, the only common denominator is state direction of the economy... and Hitler did turn around Germany's economy and provide jobs by massive state spending and state direction of many economic activities. Granted, many of those were geared toward war, but so was the Soviet Union's at many points. So while Hitler was a fascist right wing nutjob, his party used socialist principles and governing to accomplish things. Just because his policies weren't as socialist as Stalin or Mao's, doesn't mean they weren't socialist. But, so you don't feel like I'm dogpiling on you PT, you can also argue that Franklin Roosevelt established many socialist policies in the US with some success too. (The difference being he didn't call himself that, while the Nazi's did.)

However, Hitler isn't one I was looking for. I specifically excluded him because those big 3 of the 20th century are just plain too obvious and I already have plans involving them for my creation.

Try to get more obscure. I'm hunting for interesting as much as anything. Such as Qanah Parker. He was a superb military leader and a statesman. And unlike most rebels, he was very aware of when fighting would be productive and when it wouldn't. Cool dude who's on the good list.

Some other people are very arguable. Like Machiavelli. On the one hand, he espoused some pretty horrid things, on the other hand, he believed they were alternatives to conflict and horrors on larger scales. Pretty much a wildcard depending on how you argue it. But how would he see himself?
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  #6  
Old 06-27-2006
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Default Two most impressive historical figures

Simon Kenton
http://frontierfolk.org/kenton.htm

Lewis Wetzel
http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/spring97/wetzel.html

These 2 guys have balls of steel!
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Old 06-27-2006
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Good ones Dolphin. Simon Kenton would be fun to put in a cage match with Rasputin.

And Lewis Wetzel I definitely have to put on the bad list; he was pretty obviously a sociopath. Killing people under flags of truce is a good way of getting on the evil list. He fits a lot of what I would say about mass murdering fuckheads in general... in many cases they were sociopathic, using whatever accepted racism and conflict as a socially acceptable outlet for murderous tendencies. While racism is a societal problem, genocide is often a bunch of otherwise monstrous people taking advantage of some societies' willingness to look away depending on who the victims are.

But Wetzel WAS a great single fighter, and not necessarily one recorded as heroic either (most such renowned fighters are). I could see a lot of use for him as evil in this, like I could for Otto Skorzeny.
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Old 06-27-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PT-The Italian Commie
But I challenge you to say that Hitler was a socialist.


Challenge accepted.

Hitler was a socialist.





There are three types of socialist, National Socialist, International Socialist, and Globalist Socialist. Hitler was the first type, Stalin was the second, Hillary Clinton will be the third.


I could go into a big long list of definitions of each type of socialism and proof that each of those three creatures were of one type or another, but I don't really have the time at the moment.
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Old 06-28-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UZI4U
Hitler was a socialist. There are three types of socialist, National Socialis...

Dead wrong. And typically American chauvinism.

NATIONAL-SOCIALISM, or simply NAZISM, can't be a "socialism" (and in fact it's not), because it is a BOURGEOIS, upper-class movement; socialism is a PROLETARIAN movement.

Hence why you can count KARL MARX and VLADIMIR ILJIC ULJANOV ("Nikolaj Lenin") as my entries in the historical figures. Between the GOOD GUYS.
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  #10  
Old 06-28-2006
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Default In all fairness...

Quote:
Originally Posted by UZI4U
Challenge accepted.

Hitler was a socialist.





There are three types of socialist, National Socialist, International Socialist, and Globalist Socialist. Hitler was the first type, Stalin was the second, Hillary Clinton will be the third.


I could go into a big long list of definitions of each type of socialism and proof that each of those three creatures were of one type or another, but I don't really have the time at the moment.


Neither Hitler nor Stalin were actually "socialists".

I don't think I need to go on about Hitler, we're all pretty educated on that fucktard. Stalin on the other hand was a complex charecter. Stalin was a fascist plain and simple. He used the pre existing communist system to disguise his fascism as socialist reform. The existing system founded by Lenin would have probably been revamped under Trotsky to resemble a progressive, almost capitalist democracy.

But it's quite easy to abuse a pre existing system and masquarade under the ideals of the founders even though the masses know better. After all, it's pretty hard to argue with a dictator when the have the Red Army at their disposal.
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