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  #11  
Old 08-04-2006
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I don't necessarily think "military" training should be a single lump course like it seems in many cases.

Personally, I think it should be spread out over someone's education. Basic firearms safety should be taught to everyone around like first grade: don't do this, don't do that, don't touch one unless an adult is there, etc.

Then later, you can refresh that around 4th or 5th grade and teach firearms handling. That's a good age to teach that, including how they work and cleaning/maintenance. Kids have a lot of curiousity at that age, it's a good time to get it out of their system in a safe environment. Also, it's before gender tendencies start moving general aptitudes in different directions so it's a good time to teach more technical and scientific skills to both boys and girls.

Then first aid should be worked in for everyone in health, no exceptions. And later physical training, team discipline, tactics, leadership, etc.

Cramming too much in at once ends up with low retention, teaching fairly focused individual courses over time has better results. Like this, ideally by 15 students in this sort of program if the military needed them would only have to have a very abbreviated "refresher" form of basic training.

Then for the junior-senior years of high school, you could allow a more specialty training class or two to count as school classwork. Things like artillery, parachuting, piloting, navigation, etc. But those would be more like electives for students who have a real interest.
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  #12  
Old 08-04-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UZI4U
I support children, especially highschool-age children having to fulfill mandatory military training.

However that's for training only, no one under 18 should take part in actual military operations.



Want to solve "childhood obesity"? The solution is called "DROP AND GIVE ME TWENTY!"
I agree with you and must admit that i was just kidding.
There are youth-programs from 16-up for training future officers of the swedish army. A little childarmy with blond girls might seem funny, but it is a reality in many parts of the world (maybe not blond, little girls but anyway) with grimm consequences. Forgive my black-humour...
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  #13  
Old 08-04-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cesare
A little childarmy with blond girls might seem funny

You'd think so but... when my cousin graduated high school as a graduation party something like 70 odd students from his school went to a paintball field and had a huge night battle.

With 2 teams, oddly enough almost all of the girls ended up on my team, about 3/4 of my team were female. The other team was about all guys... with lots of bravado and machismo to fuel them.

There was a history teacher with some decent tactical knowledge on the other side. Our side though had 3 people with talent for tactics and strategy. Their team had a bunch of guys and every single one "knew" what he was doing. All the girls on our team didn't ask questions when told to do something.

With repeating arms, bravado and machismo lasted a little less than a minute against leadership and discipline. Overall, with capture the flag games in an urban nighttime environment, the other team didn't win a single match.

So yeah... if they have some decent leaders among them, an army of little girls could be pretty scary with current armaments.

LOL yeah it doesn't perfectly represent reality and those girls weren't that young but still. But with current low recoil assault rifles, tiny kids who can slip through areas, and whom enemies are hesitant to fire at? I could do wicked things with them as soldiers.

But yeah... 18 to fight unless there's invasion and desperation.
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  #14  
Old 08-05-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UZI4U
I support children, especially highschool-age children having to fulfill mandatory military training.

Good luck. Most Countries, including Italy, have already abolished mandatory Military Draft service for people over 18, you figure out if they can impose mandatory military training for underages!
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  #15  
Old 08-05-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PT-The Italian Commie
Good luck. Most Countries, including Italy, have already abolished mandatory Military Draft service for people over 18, you figure out if they can impose mandatory military training for underages!

There's a big difference between a "draft" and "mandatory military training". Draft implies service, training does not.

And there are many nations where that is a reality of life, and they happen to be some of the most advanced nations on the planet, with some of the best economies, scientific sectors and militaries on earth.

Knowing how to work in stressful environments is never a bad thing, likewise training on weapons. Basic medical training has serious real life uses outside the military. And no one can claim the PE, Teamwork and Leadership training are bad things, military service or no military service.

To argue otherwise is lunacy. Nations who do not support such simply do not wish their people to have these skills and ways of thought, to prevent them from being able to act on their own, without the blessing of Mother State. Conditioned dependency on the state is all the rage in Europe, better know as statism, and the stepping stone to totalitarianism.

So to put it simply, it isn't our fault Europe wants to train its people to be weak and mindless sheep. They may find trusting their fates in the state comforting, but the sane find it terrifying.



Flame on.
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  #16  
Old 08-06-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UZI4U
Nations who do not support such simply do not wish their people to have these skills and ways of thought, to prevent them from being able to act on their own, without the blessing of Mother State. Conditioned dependency on the state is all the rage in Europe, better know as statism, and the stepping stone to totalitarianism.
So to put it simply, it isn't our fault Europe wants to train its people to be weak and mindless sheep. They may find trusting their fates in the state comforting, but the sane find it terrifying.

Others would argue instead that the very same idea of giving young kids military training -IS- making them mindless sheep/fighting machines, training them young to "serve the State" whoever and however it's ruled by (in a nutshell: training them young to serve without doubts or odds the dictators that will come). After all, "military training without service" was a common practice in the Fascist-ruled Italy ("Gioventù Italiana del Littorio") and in the Nazi Germany (Hitlerjugend).

That's why I would support in my Country today the TOTAL ELIMINATION of all permanent Armed Forces (exception made for the "Carabinieri", which are all in all police, and those sectors like jet fighter pilots, etc., whose tasks can not be fulfilled by anybody), and replace them with a "Civilian Militia" à la Swiss (and "à la Neo-Sparta"). This does not only ensures people to have conscience of their rights and duties as citizens and encourages them to be always prepared since this would make -THEM- the cornerstones of the national defence, but also gives them a certain state of mind about what's good and what's not in their Country. As in example: should one day, in such a Country, a dictator arise, the Civilian Militia would much likely overthrow him rather than serving him.
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Last edited by PT-The Italian Commie : 08-06-2006 at 08:32 AM.
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  #17  
Old 08-06-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PT-The Italian Commie
Others would argue instead that the very same idea of giving young kids military training -IS- making them mindless sheep/fighting machines, training them young to "serve the State" whoever and however it's ruled by (in a nutshell: training them young to serve without doubts or odds the dictators that will come).

This is only true of training that teaches loyalty to the state, which is something I disagree with in all military training. Actual combat training is different from ideological training, the latter of which discourages independent thought and is dangerous, and former encourages independent thought and is helpful.

Quote:
After all, "military training without service" was a common practice in the Fascist-ruled Italy ("Gioventł Italiana del Littorio") and in the Nazi Germany (Hitlerjugend).

Not really, as said above those were not military training but rather loyalty indoctrination, which are not even related, although they can be intermixed by those who wish.

Quote:
That's why I would support in my Country today the TOTAL ELIMINATION of all permanent Armed Forces (exception made for the "Carabinieri", which are all in all police, and those sectors like jet fighter pilots, etc., whose tasks can not be fulfilled by anybody),

And where did I say I supported standing armies?

Quote:
and replace them with a "Civilian Militia" ą la Swiss (and "ą la Neo-Sparta").

Then I'm suprised you disagree with me, because I got the whole idea from the Swiss. All school age males in Switzerland undergo some basic military training, including rifle training. I would simply expand it to include medical and simulated combat training.

A militia without a similar training background would be chaos [see: American Civil War].

Quote:
This does not only ensures people to have conscience of their rights and duties as citizens and encourages them to be always prepared since this would make -THEM- the cornerstones of the national defence, but also gives them a certain state of mind about what's good and what's not in their Country. As in example: should one day, in such a Country, a dictator arise, the Civilian Militia would much likely overthrow him rather than serving him.

See my above comments, military training does not mean altering ones conscience.
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  #18  
Old 08-06-2006
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UZI, if you read well my post, I NEVER SAID I disagree with you...
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  #19  
Old 08-07-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PT-The Italian Commie
UZI, if you read well my post, I NEVER SAID I disagree with you...

Sorry.
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  #20  
Old 08-09-2006
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Default Army Cadets

Over here in Blightly you can join the Army as a junior soldier at 16, there are also Army sixth-form colleges, you can also become an apprentice (there are some job roles in the army only available as an apprenticeship). Either way you are a 'soldier' you just can't fight until you're 18.

We also have the Army Cadet Force (as some other more pansey cadet units), which is often confused by many members of the public as being part of the Territorial Army (our reserve Army). The ACF is a MOD sponsored youth group for 'young people' between the ages of 12 and 18. Currently there are over 40,000 ACF cadets, with over 7,000 Officers and civilian Adult Instructors.

Are there any other countries that have Army Cadets? (other then Canada which has some lame law where Cadets can't train with firearms other then for target practise). I vaguely recall that one of the Eastern Bloc countries have one, as well as Israel.
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