This Day in History

Daily Cartoon provided by Bravenet

  #21  
Old 04-27-2006
Libertarian's Avatar
Libertarian Libertarian is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 23
Default that sucks

see what "social democracies" let you have.
I shoot more than 1000 rounds a month or two usually.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-27-2006
PT-The Italian Commie's Avatar
PT-The Italian Commie PT-The Italian Commie is offline
Super Senior member - Has no life and spends a lot of time here
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sardinia, Italy
Posts: 2,611
Lightbulb Okay, I see confusion.

First of all: you can own a date number of ammunitions AT ONE TIME, but when you run out, you can re-buy or reload, no problem. There's no limit at the number of ammunitions that you can buy yearly, monthly, daily, mainly it's not their business, they only care that you don't own more than a date number, but then, if you have, let's say, 1500 rounds, and you shoot 300, nothing forbids you to buy back the 300 rounds you shot even the same day.

There is a loophole, mind: most shooting ranges sell ammunitions, these ammos have to be shot there (can not buy ammunitions at the range and take them to home), and them don't cumulate with the number of bullets you keep at home. This means that you can go, let's say, to the range without ammo, buy 2000 rounds, shoot till the cow goes home, and get back without having passed the max. ammunitions limit.

The licenses are limited in the time as such:
The CCW is valid for one year and has to be renewed by re-presenting to the police the entire documentation and paying an 80 ? fee (I know it's exaggerated... ). Additionally there's a special firearms carry license whose availability is limited to those who work in the private security sector (security guards etc.), this permit is valid for 2 years instead;
The sporting license is valid for 5 years, it can be renewed simply mailing to the police a certification of phisical and mental health, and no tax is to be paid to obtain such a certification or the license either;
The hunting license has to be renewed every 5 years too.

Registration: all guns have to be registered. It's automatic. It has always been such. All you have to do is to fill a module and send it to the closest police office. Period.

One thing is to be thought: if you leave your license expire, this only means that you can not carry your guns outside of home or buy new guns/ammunitions. They can NOT confiscate your guns if you haven't renewed the license. Confiscation of firearms is allowed in Italy only if the license expires because the holder perpetrates a crime. If, to say, you find a granpa's shotgun in a closet and it's a heritage for you, all you have to do is to declare it to the police, and if you have not a criminal record or are not mentally ill, they can not confiscate it. In fact, on a total population of 60 millions of Italian citizens, about 30'000'000 own at least one firearm. If you want to own a gun just for the sake to keep it with a box of ammo for property defence, you can simply ask for a "Simple Gun Permit" that allows you to buy ONE gun and limited ammunitions for it, and keep it stored, never take it out of your property. This is the only kind of license that allows you to buy and own ONE gun and limited ammo just for it, all other licenses allow you to buy guns and ammunitions as much and as many times as you want 'till you reach the limit (in fact most gun collectors have BOTH the "Collectors License" and the "Sporting License" so that they can BOTH have unlimited guns of all kinds AND use them freely).
Inscription to a gun club or whatever is NOT mandatory to have a guns permit, the only mandatory thing is that you are mentally sane, law-abiding, and have at least the knowledge to avoid to accidentally shoot yourself or some family members (fair enough if you ask me, you will all agree with me that accidents caused by negligent mishandling of a loaded firearm could be avoided if the concept of RESPONSIBILITY was made to enter in the head of all gun owners, don't you?).
As for the "Certified ability in the handling of firearms", my father had it when he asked for his CCW back about 20 years ago, and he obtained it in half an hour without attending one single day at the range. Also, you don't have to obtain this certification if you have done the Military draft. Mind that those who haven't done the draft for "Conscience Objection" reasons can not be entitled to own firearms, ever.

Yes, 3rd Gen. NVGs, or whatever, are forbidden since the law forbids everything similar that is in use with the military (when they will switch to th Gen. or whatever, the 3rd Gen. will be available).
Before the 1970s, the laws were MUCH MORE laxer than this, and basically the only thing one could not own were selective-fire weapons. By the 1970s, things changed when the wave of "Political Terrorism" ("Red Brigades" Vs. Fascist terrorists etc.) spilled blood through Europe. At that time, ALL European countries adopted restrictive laws (example: Germany banned all military-style firearms and the ban was whitdrawn only by the beginning of 2005).

You can despise Italian gun laws as much as you want, but all in all the law states: here in Italy ANYBODY who is not a criminal or a mentally ill can own basically ANYTHING that is not a strict military weapon. PERIOD. In comparaison to, let's say, UK, Italy is real guns heaven.
__________________
"It is criminal to teach a man not to defend himself, when he is the constant victim of brutal attacks. It is legal and lawful to own a shotgun or a rifle. We believe in obeying the law." -- Malcolm X

"We (atheists) act in good conscience because we believe in moral principles, not because we expect a reward in Heaven." -- Margherita Hack

Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-27-2006
Kthulhu's Avatar
Kthulhu Kthulhu is offline
Super Senior member - Has no life and spends a lot of time here
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 203
Default

So, in Italy at least, you can have no more than, say, 1500 rounds of ammo for an arm at any given time, but you can replenish up to that amount year round?

"Fifteen hundred and ONE rounds of ammunition! You're in trouble!"
"I swear to God, it was a factory packing accident!"



Also, are there magazine capacity restrictions on rimfire rifles? And how are antique weapons (such as, say, the Mauser C96 pistol) handled over there if (as I recall) firearms have to be tested by a government proving facility before being allowed on the open market?

Finally, what is the status of silencers/suppresors in Italy? I've heard they are sold over the counter in many European countries because they are viewed as noise-reduction courtesy devices. Does this hold true for Italy also?
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04-27-2006
PT-The Italian Commie's Avatar
PT-The Italian Commie PT-The Italian Commie is offline
Super Senior member - Has no life and spends a lot of time here
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sardinia, Italy
Posts: 2,611
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kthulhu
So, in Italy at least, you can have no more than, say, 1500 rounds of ammo for an arm at any given time, but you can replenish up to that amount year round?

Nope. The ammunitions limit is not for AN ARM, is for a GIVEN CALIBER. Let's say: if you have only a pistol in that given caliber, you can own no more than 250 up to 1000 rounds for it (it depends whether it is a "Common firearm" or a "Sporting firearm"). But since there is a limit up to 1500 rounds for hunting cartridges, if you have both a pistol AND a hunting carbine/rifle in that caliber, the limit to the number of rounds in THAT caliber that you can own raises to 1500. Example. 9x21mm pistol? from 250 to 1000 rounds. 9x21mm pistol AND carbine (almost ALL long arms are considered hunting weapons in Italy)? 1500 rounds.
If one has, to say, three pistols and three carbines chambered for three different calibers, he can have max. 1500 rounds for EACH ONE of the three calibers.
If one has a hunting rifle, he can have max. 1500 rounds for it. But here in Italy, ALL vintage military rifles, and ALL modern military-style long arms, are considered "hunting weapon", because the classification of "Hunting weapon" is not given from the "Evident purpose of the weapons design", it is given from the CALIBER. It doesn't matter if you have a bolt-action or an AR-15 semiauto: if it is in 223 caliber, it's an hunting rifle.
There's no time limit within which you cannot replenish your escort. Nothing similar. If you fire your rounds, you are free to buy them back at any time, as long as you don't go over that max. due number.

On a side note, the law limiting the number of ownable cartridges was made as a "Public SECURITY law", not SAFETY. Its purpose was to avoid explosions that may involve a lot of victims if the house of a gun owner sets on fire. In fact it is not even a "Gun law", it's the same law that says that the retailers of gases/propane/etc. can not store their bottles inside inhabitated centres and that gas stations are to be placed at a certain range from housings.

Don't forget the shooting range loophole, anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kthulhu
Also, are there magazine capacity restrictions on rimfire rifles? And how are antique weapons (such as, say, the Mauser C96 pistol) handled over there if (as I recall) firearms have to be tested by a government proving facility before being allowed on the open market?

Rimfire rifles have the same max. capacity as centerfires (10 or 5 rounds, it depends from the capacity the weapon is given with from the factory.
The NATIONAL FIREARMS TESTING GROUND is a different matter. Before the import, all importers or manufacturers must send A BATCH (not every single sample!) of the weapon to the Ground to be tested. TESTS are mainly based on safety issues. After the tests, the given weapon is inscribed in the NATIONAL FIREARMS CATALOGUE, thus making it legal to trade and own in Italy.

Antique firearms are another matter. Guns made before 1975 don't need to be inscribed in the NATIONAL FIREARMS CATALOGUE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kthulhu
Finally, what is the status of silencers/suppresors in Italy? I've heard they are sold over the counter in many European countries because they are viewed as noise-reduction courtesy devices. Does this hold true for Italy also?

Sadly, forbidden.
__________________
"It is criminal to teach a man not to defend himself, when he is the constant victim of brutal attacks. It is legal and lawful to own a shotgun or a rifle. We believe in obeying the law." -- Malcolm X

"We (atheists) act in good conscience because we believe in moral principles, not because we expect a reward in Heaven." -- Margherita Hack

Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04-27-2006
Kthulhu's Avatar
Kthulhu Kthulhu is offline
Super Senior member - Has no life and spends a lot of time here
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 203
Default

So basically, no going over the limit, but you can keep filling up to the limit if you go through your stockpile. And then there's the shooting range option.

Speaking of ranges and shooting areas, are such facilities common, and how comprehensive are they for shooting options (such as rimfire, handgun, and rifle ranges)?

Maybe this thread should be split into a "Gun ownership in Europe" one.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 04-27-2006
Edmond's Avatar
Edmond Edmond is offline
Super Senior member - Has no life and spends a lot of time here
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Frogland. Yurp.
Posts: 392
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kthulhu

Finally, what is the status of silencers/suppresors in Italy? I've heard they are sold over the counter in many European countries because they are viewed as noise-reduction courtesy devices. Does this hold true for Italy also?

Totally unregulated here, my ears say thank you!
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 04-27-2006
PT-The Italian Commie's Avatar
PT-The Italian Commie PT-The Italian Commie is offline
Super Senior member - Has no life and spends a lot of time here
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sardinia, Italy
Posts: 2,611
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kthulhu
So basically, no going over the limit, but you can keep filling up to the limit if you go through your stockpile. And then there's the shooting range option.

Yes, got the concept.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kthulhu
Speaking of ranges and shooting areas, are such facilities common, and how comprehensive are they for shooting options (such as rimfire, handgun, and rifle ranges)?

Basically, there is one national Shooting Ranges Federation (TSN, "Tiro a Segno Nazionale"), which has AT LEAST one see per each Province. As in the example, in my entire province there is just one range, in the Capitol city, Sassari. But in the biggest or most populated provinces and/or cities (like Milan, Rome, etc.), there are much more. Indoor shooting ranges leave you shoot pistols, rifles and carbines under a certain caliber (generally .308-Winchester); long range rifles are to be practiced in open-air shooting fields. This because normally indoor shooting ranges are inside the city, and with the high density of inhabitants that the Italian cities have, they cannot risk a bullet to fly out of control somehow and hit a "civilian".

Anyway, inscription to shooting ranges is NOT mandatory to have a gun, and most of the people that I know which own guns AND have a country allotment of their property go directly THERE to shoot (being the country allotment a property of theirs, the law allows them to keep a gun there on their person and loaded even if their license allows them only to "transport" and not to "carry" a gun). Fact is that you can practice a gun in you Country allotment only if there are not constantly-inhabited housings at a certain range to avoid, #1-to hit somebody, #2-that some jerkoff neighbour hears the gunshots and calls police. Not much a problem if you go practice your pistol or rifle during the hunting season, even if you don't hunt, there are so much gunshots around that nobody minds one or two more...
__________________
"It is criminal to teach a man not to defend himself, when he is the constant victim of brutal attacks. It is legal and lawful to own a shotgun or a rifle. We believe in obeying the law." -- Malcolm X

"We (atheists) act in good conscience because we believe in moral principles, not because we expect a reward in Heaven." -- Margherita Hack

Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright SecurityArms.com 1995 - 2009