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  #21  
Old 09-15-2006
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About the Trivia:
APK-74 5,45mm Light Machine Gun ?
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  #22  
Old 09-15-2006
REMOV REMOV is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger
About the Trivia:
APK-74 5,45mm Light Machine Gun ?
I'm afraid this is still a wrong answer
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If you can`t grin, keep out of the way until you can. [Winston Churchill]
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  #23  
Old 09-15-2006
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by REMOV
I'm afraid this is still a wrong answer
And that makes you laugh...
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  #24  
Old 09-16-2006
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Angry OOkay, REMOV...

Nobody has a clue. Now could you please give the answer and enlighten us all?
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  #25  
Old 09-16-2006
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5.45mm PU-21 Poplin machine gun
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War is a game played with a smile; if you can`t smile, grin.
If you can`t grin, keep out of the way until you can. [Winston Churchill]
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  #26  
Old 09-17-2006
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Question

REMOV, there is a link with picture to this "PU-21 Poplin" machine gun ?

I found Russian informations but the link does not work any more:
http://forums.airbase.ru/index.php?t...9345.msg448748
Russian infos HERE (pictures attachment out)

Free Website Translator:
Mikhail Dragunov
Our Minimi
From the editorial staff:

Small-caliber light machine guns already several decades are found in arsenal of the majority of the armies of peace. In the 80th the years XX of century their completely logical continuation became the machine guns universal with the magazine and band feed under the same cartridges (NATO of 5,56x45 or Soviet of 5,45x39). By pioneers in this appeared Belgians, who developed “Minimi”, although it could be and differently. At the beginning of the 70's in Izhevsk the group of designers actively worked at the design of light machine gun on the base RPK -74. It approached standard sectorial stores, and capacious sectional tape. Heavy machine-gun stem (with weight about 1 kgf against 0,45 kgf of automatic stem) made it possible to conduct sufficiently intensive fire. But servicemen, in the final analysis, forewent the small-caliber machine gun with the combined supply of cartridges. One, in our view absurd, argument sounded approximately thus: into the ammunition of machine gunner so enter eight stores to 45 cartridges each; therefore places on the equipment for the boxes with the tapes no longer remains, yes even weight is excessive.
However, let us grant word to one of the creators of domestic machine gun with the combined supply of cartridges. Perhaps, text will seem by a little dry, then it gives complete idea about this history, which, perhaps, still did not end.

The study of the idea of light machine gun with the combined supply of cartridges began approximately from autumn of 1971. I remember, as Yu.K. Alexander, sitting at its working table, it is pensive spit in the hands the receiver group of automaton with the milled out window on the left wall, where is passed left combat support. The basic conceptual ideas belonged to Aleksandrov: the arrangement of the receiver of tape on the left wall and the use of a left combat support for the ramming of cartridge from the tape, preliminary [vyzhim] of cartridge from the component of tape to the line of ramming.
I actively was set in operation on “the machine gun with the standardized supply” (PU), this designation gave to project, since October 1972, after official entering to the work into the fortieth division and passage of traditional for that time “of course young soldier” - weedings, billet of branch fodder, gathering of harvest in the village [Sannikovo] Of the [kiyasovskogo] region. In the development Yu. participated.K. Alexander, the leader of group, who was being occupied in parallel by automaton with the balanced automation (AL -7) of the caliber of 5,45 mm, v.M. Kalashnikov, it also worked with AL -7 and especially much - above finalizing 5,45- mm of stem. Well and I dealt with the layout of model under the management Yu.K. [Aleksandrova]. Development PU constantly was controlled, the chief of KB -3 a. participated in the consideration of basic constructive solutions.I. Nesterov.
In 1973 drawings were transmitted into 79-[y] shop, but active operation was developed by the following year. Assembling the first model as all following, conducted the fitter of experimental shop p.F.[Lyakasov]. The first shooting conducted, if I am not mistaken, in the spring of 1974, after which immediately they began to prepare model for the tests in [TsNIItochmashe].
During one of his missions into Izhevsk model looked the officer of the division of rifle armament [GRAU] Colonel v.S. [Deykin]. Was memorized the genuine interest, with which Vladimir Sergeyevich scrutinized our also sufficiently angular creation. It [chuvststvovalos], that he studies it as engineer, as designer. There are many years of years later in the book A.A. [Malimona] “are domestic automata " I read about the work Of [deykina] in KB Of the [shchurovskogo] range: together with v.B. Fierce and n.M. [Afanasevym] it developed experimental machine gun is HARMONY (Lyutyy, [Afanasev], [Deykin]).
Our work occurred under the flag of theme “poplin”; purpose - increase 1,5 times of the effectiveness of light machine gun. On the course of events came out the problem of so-called “hydrophobia” of the weapon of the caliber of 5,45 mm - the unit of cutoff after the location of weapon in the water was destroyed. By the way, Americans in their small-caliber assault rifle Of ml6 so could not it overcome, and they supplemented management on the operation by indication about the fact that after boosting of water obstacles the weapon must be several times strongly shaken. In the permission of this problem the weighty contribution introduced Yu.K. Alexander. The changes proposed by them introduced also into our machine gun: they made a new lock, stem was replaced, after shifting breech face 1,5 mm forward. After this, the machine gun in effect ceased to function, with the shooting with the tape each third shot - setting cartridge.
After beginning to analyze reasons, I with the horror revealed his own fundamental error: cartridge in the receiver of tape was located too far from the breech face, and after output from the guides of receiver and component of tape it approximately 1,5 mm (!) moved freely, directed in no way. Immediately were recalled the rarely rushed by previously settings, and observation a.A. [Malimona]. When they demonstrated the first, still not fired model to the key personnel of division, it in an undertone noted: “Cartridge must constantly be sent”. What it did push slightly, did recall it its experience of the tester Of [shchurovskogo] range or that other?
It fortunately, sufficiently rapidly was possible to find the palliative solution, which was proven to be, however, for this concrete model for completely effective. During the tests in [TsNIItochmashe] of delays there was the mass, but there were no settings. This example I very frequently gave to the students of the machine-building department Of [iMI]/[IzhGTU], when the course of the design of small arms read.
Thus, in end 1974 - the beginning of 1975 PU they experienced in TsNIItochmashe. Model satisfied requirements neither on failure-free performance nor on the vitality; tests ended by a breakdown in the back plate of receiver group. Nevertheless, the conclusion Of tsNIItochmasha was sufficient to neutral. They noted that the represented model should be considered faster the mock-up, whose designation - checking the idea of the combined supply. Those carried out in the course of of tests the representatives of the plant of modification showed, that reliable work to ensure is possible and that the machine gun must be tested on the range of the Ministry of Defense in the environs of Leningrad ([Rzhevka]), after determining its tactical niche in the weapon system.
Tape to 200 cartridges for our machine gun was plotted in the duralumin duct, which was fastened from below the receiver group. There were at the same time versions and purely magazine ammunition supplies. Thus, v.V. Camisoles designed the disk of the increased capacity to 100 cartridges (according to the type of rotating plates to the machine guns YES even Vickers FF); V.N. [Paranin] developed feed drum [MZO] (similar to the store to 75 cartridges to RPK). Besides this, v.V. Camisoles it worked at card-take device for the tape, put into the magazine window RPK -74. However, in those times servicemen, in particular the representatives OF [GRAU], sufficiently negatively related to the stores of the increased capacity, considering it their expensive and unreliable.
The following model ( PU -1 ) preserved the conceptual ideas of predecessor. Receiver was located on the left wall, store from below, at the common for the light machine gun of Kalashnikov (RPK) place, the upper arrangement of lateral gas engine ([BGD]), the extraction of the cases of [vpravo]-[vverkh], fast and well- trigger mechanism from RPK was differed only in terms of the construction of automatic release. The construction of the tape was completely changed: remained the idea of [vyzhima], but was changed the fixation of cartridge in the component (this solution it prompted tape to the heavy machine gun [NSV]). Component came out successful, cartridge solidly was held in the tape, due to a small increase in the step it became more flexible. Furthermore, we simplified the construction of the receiver of tape. The layout of receiver developed p.N. Korolev. At that time Yu.K. Alexander it was already assigned the deputy chief designer; therefore it led work a.I. Nesterov.
In 1976 PU -1 they experienced on the range of the Ministry of Defense. Machine gun functioned normally both with the store and with the tape. However, any specific answer to the chief problem “is necessary in principle this model of army” we so they did not obtain. In all likelihood, servicemen did not see sense in the replacement of RPK.
It was in 1977 decided to radically recompose machine gun. If the idea of two previous models could be outlined as “machine gun with the magazine feed with the possibility to use a tape”, then here we made all vice versa. I.e., “the machine gun with the belt feed, in which if necessary it is possible to use the I store”. In connection with this they changed the I arrangement of receiver, it moved for the top of receiver group, and magazine window - to the left wall as in the English machine pistol [STEN]. [BGD] moved under the stem. Fastening support changed. The extraction of case was produced [vpravo]-[vniz]; [udarnikovogo] type fast and well- trigger mechanism “[zadnesheptalnyy]”, without the regime of single shooting. Rate of fire grew in comparison with RPK -74 approximately to 150 shots per minute. Unfortunately, we insufficiently thought over concept itself, in the construction was as a result realized this deliberately unnecessary for the light machine gun property as the possibility of changing the direction of supply from the tape. As a result machine gun (received designation PU -2) proved to be excess complex, during the tests on range functioned considerably more badly than PU -1.
Taking into account this sad experience was developed sequential and last version - PU -21. In it we forewent the change of the direction of supply, after preserving the assembly solutions of PU -2. There was even thought to give claim for certificate of authorship, but in the fuss it so was not realized. But after a certain time it turned out that analogous layout Belgian firm Fabrique Of nationale (FN) realized in the machine gun “[Minimi]” (Minimi). Information about it appeared later than the end of the works on the project PU. Experimental model PU -21 was assembled, but theme in 1978 rolled up, v.M. Kalashnikov I obtained the new tasks, not connected with the experimental works.
Only, what was possible to make, to conduct experiments on the search for the optimum parameters of automation PU -21. Results proved to be not bad, the difference in the speeds of lock frame in the rear position with the tape and with the store was minimum (about 0,2-0,4 m/s). Subsequently these experiments became the basis of my thesis, which I protected six years later, already working in the department “design of automatic machines” (at present the department “small arms” Of [izhGTU]).

Tactical-technical characteristics PU -21 (theme “poplin”)
Caliber, mm - 5,45
Cartridge, mm - 5,45x39
The initial velocity of bullet, m/s - 960
Weight in the unequipped state, kgf 5,7
Weight with the tape to 200 cartridges, the kgf - 8,5
Length is general, mm -1060
Length of stem, mm - 590
Rate of fire, [vystr]./[min]. - 750
Capacity of stores, cartridges - 30; 45
Capacity of tape, cartridges - 200

Last edited by Roger : 09-17-2006 at 04:17 AM.
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