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  #1  
Old 09-18-2006
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Default New Beretta AR?

Have you got any news / photo about the new version of the Beretta AR prototype for the "soldato futuro" program?
Here the well-known photo of the mockup:

this is the official design, from my photoalbum:

Somebody has images??
Thanks, sorry for my english...
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  #2  
Old 09-18-2006
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Same picture more large size:



Found this in Italian language by grisù:
IL PROTOTIPO DEL NUOVO 70/90 PER L'ESERCITO!
svelato il "soldato futuro" step III

Come sempre in anteprima su SoftAirMania, dopo rumors e fotomontaggi, finalmente svelato l’aspetto del III prototipo del nuovo fucile per l’EI, basato x ora sull’ottima meccanica del 70/90 (AK) e su un receiver in polimeri modulare tipo HK G36.
Rispetto ai primi due prototipi l’aspetto esterno è stato ulteriormente rinnovato, e questo è il design ufficiale Beretta:
(Attenzione la sigla GLX160 si riferisce al solo lanciagranate!)

L’arma è compatta e soprattutto molto pratica, SENZA tutti gli orpelli e i cablaggi che rendono una trappola i vari "landwarrior" stranieri!
In estrema sintesi le caratteristiche:
Calibro 5,56mm con bocchettone caricatore modulare, come sul g36.
Asta d’armamento ambidestra e laterale, come la doppia finestra d’espulsione.
Calciolo pieghevole e regolabile su 4 posizioni (vd. G36KV) con portabatterie.
Canne rapidamente sostituibili (!!!) da 10 a 20 pollici, senza necessità di attrezzi particolari (prevista versione mitragliatore di squadra).
Peso e dimensioni ridotte ( con modulo ottico pesa quanto un 70/90 senza accessori! ).
Astina multirail integrata.

Finalmente la Beretta ha modificato le parti che più criticate, anche nei precedenti topic :
Il calcio è ora pieghevole, l’asta armamento è stata spostata dal lato superiore alla posizione laterale, e soprattutto è stata snellita la configurazione dell’ottica !
Abbastanza compatta e leggera ( come ql del kit sopmod II americano) comprende adesso “solo” camera termica e telecamera a colori, (indispensabili nella “network war” verso cui tutta la Nato converge a marce forzate), mentre il sistema laser, laser IR e ottica 4x saranno disponibili a parte, in caso di necessità.
Rimane per ora anche il propoint superiore monolente, ma ancora suggerirei al consorzio Selenia di mettere solo una slitta superiore, dove agganciare un piccolo Olosight, come sull’analogo visore francese (e forse un visore comune verrà adottato da entrambe gli eserciti!)
Il prototipo mostra anche il lanciagranate GLX160 da 40mm, già acquisito dall’EI e in prossima distribuzione ai reparti, per sostituire l’m203 (che anche gli americani stanno sostituendo con l’HK, perché poco affidabile!)
Rispetto al M203, che l’EI aveva acquisito in tutta fretta e del quale non è molto soddisfatto, il modello Beretta pesa 200 gr. (!) in meno e accetta le nuove granate con bossolo da 46mm!
Il modulo di mira laterale del 40mm ricalca quello del Socom Scar, ed è avanzatissimo: telemetro laser e due modalità d’ingaggio, x bersagli statici e dinamici, e con possibilità di memorizzare la balistica di diversi tipi di granata.
Insomma un mini OICW a tutti gli effetti, ma con pesi e ingombri minimi!
Un sistema complesso ma con ergonomia molto semplice x garantire massima intuitività d’uso all’operatore e che interessa molto a Germania, Uk, e paesi nordici.
Punti il bersaglio, segui i led verde/rosso x correggere l’elevazione e spari!
Gittata circa 600 metri (doppia dell’M203)!

Ma la cosa più innovativa ed originale, è la pulsantiera ambidestra, agganciata al ris superiore ( la vedete poco sopra la culatta del lanciagranate)!
Nella configurazione x ora scelta avrà:
1. pulsante PTT per attivare la radio senza togliere le mani dall’arma (un sogno per il SoftAir!!)
2. pulsante x trasmettere l’immagine video al monoculare dell’elmetto ( x tiro defilato o per trasmettere immagini a un compagno o per riceverne, anche da satelliti o UAV)
3. pulsante x trasmettere un fermimmagine lungo la catena di comando.
4. pulsante x attivare i due laser di mira.
Geniale e molto comodo, il consorzio Usa per l’XM8 non c’era riuscito, pur avendolo previsto!

In definitiva il sistema italiano x ora è di gran lunga il + semplice ed ergonomico, vedremo poi se saprà dimostrarsi all’altezza.
L’arma italiana in definitiva è tipo HK G36, e… avrei anche una foto del modello inerte, ma non ve la posto che è troppo scatoloso!
Eserciti stranieri hanno firmato un memorandum per seguire la commercializzazione del modello definitivo, e in autunno il consorzio presenterà il prototipo definitivo (che terrà conto delle soluzioni definitive di Scar e altri modelli ) per le nuove prove sul campo.

Last edited by Roger : 09-18-2006 at 07:00 AM.
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  #3  
Old 09-18-2006
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Thank you but... i'm Grisù, my nickname in the italian national softair forum...
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Old 09-18-2006
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Lightbulb TRANSLATION (with some add-ons by me).

----------
Prototype of the new 70/90 rifle for the Army!
"Soldato Futuro" Step 3 program unveiled.

On preview, as usual on AIRSOFT-MANIA, after several rumors and fakes, here you find finally unveiled the look of the 3rd prototype of the future Italian Army rifle, foundeded (at least for now) on the excellent Beretta 70/90 working system (AK-based), and on an HK-G36 - style polymer-made modular receiver-frame.

The external look of the weapon has undergone further renewal in comparaison with the early prototypes, and this is the official BERETTA design:
(Notice: the name "GLX-160" only applies to the grenade launcher)

The weapon is very compact and handy, FREE from all the wire connections and the bulging optionals that turn all the foreign-made "Land Warrior" projects into snagging traps.
Main features extremely summarized here:
.5'56x45mm-NATO caliber with modular magazine well, like on the HK-G36.
Side-mounted, ambidextrous cocking handle and ejection (selectable, double ejection window).
Stock foldable and telescopic, adjustable to 4 positions (see G36-KV or XM8LAR) with spare batteries container.
Quick-change barrels, lenght ranging from 10 to 20 inches, shifting from one barrel to another requires no use of special tools (also planned a Light Machine-Gun/Designated Marksman Rifle setup)
Reduced weight and dimensions (the weapon with full optical module attached weights overall like an AR-70/90 rifle free of any accessory and without magazine).
Multi-rail integrated on handguard.

Finally BERETTA has modified the most criticized parts in the precedent topics:
The buttstock is now side-foldable, the cocking handle has been moved from the upside position to the side of the weapon, the optical device configuration has undergone a severe reduction in weight and dimensions. Now compact and lightweight enough (similar to the one foreseen for the American SOPMOD-2 kit) now includes "only" thermal camera and color camera (both absolutely necessary for the concept of "Network War" which NATO is forging ahead to implement), while the laser system, IR laser and 4x optics will be issued as stand-alone modules, to be attached only should the need arise.
The top-mounted, monocular ProPoint optic remains by now, but we'd suggest the SELENIA consortium (tasked to further development of the optical system) to drop it and put only a top rail on the weapon, where to attach a small Holosight like the one that's being adopted for the parallel French program (this would lead the way for a possible adoption of a common sighting system for both armies, and in perspective for all NATO forces)-
The prototype also shows the .40x46SR GLX-160 grenade launcher, already adopted and soon-to-be-fielded already with the now-in-service 70/90 rifles to replace the less-reliable M-203 (which is also being replaced within US service, by the HK-AG36 renamed XM-320). The new BERETTA GLX-160 is 200 grams lighter than the M-203 (which had been purchased in great quantities by the Italian Armed Forces to boost grenadier firepower within fighting platoons following the experience in the 1991 Iraqi War, and which has been fielded in Somalia, Balkans, Iraq again, and never actually satisfied the Italian fighters); furthermore, it accepts newer, longer 46mm shells (?).
The entire "Grenadier" system (grenade launcher and related sighting module) is based on the one developed from the one of the FN F2000 for the FN SCAR of future US-SOCOM issue; specifically, the side-mounted grenade launcher sighting module is highly advanced: it features an integrated laser rangefinder and two different engagement modes, for standing targets and for moving targets, with possibility to memorize different ballistics for different kinds of grenade: an all-out "mini-OICW", with reduced weight and encumbrance, a complex yet highly ergonomic system to achieve highly easy and intuitive operational use and which has gained the interest of operators that are working to similar projects for Germany, UK and Scandinavian Countries: just aim the target, follow the red and green leds on the aiming module to correct the windage and elevation and pull the trigger; the range is of about 600 Metres, twice as the one of the M-203.

The most original and innovatory feature is the ambidextrous push-button box installed on the upper RIS. As in the currently-evaluated configuration, it features:
#1 - PTT button to activate the Radio Communicator without giving up the hold on thwe weapon.
#2 - Button to transmit the video image from the rifle's camera to the helmet's Head-Up Display (very useful to fire the rifle while hiding behind a repair, to transmit or receive an image to/from another squad member, or to receive/retrieve images from/to satellites or UAVs).
#3 - Button to transmit a "Snapshot" of the currenth situation through the Command Chain up to the Mission Command.
#4 - Button to activate the two laser beamsights.
Ingenious, and very comfortable to use; even the US XM8-LAR "development consortium" had previewed to develop something similar, but had not found a way to.

Overall, the Italian system is by now the most easy to use, comfortable and performant, and only waits to be fielded to demonstrate what it will be actually "able to do". Not to mention that the Italian system uses a completely WIRELESS linking system for the entire kit, while all other similar systems developed in other countries (including the USA) have cable linkings that result in a high risk of snagging and other reliability issues.
Ultimately, the weapon itself results much G36-style (and here Stealth-Grisu states to have a picture of the model but he won't put it up, PER FAVORE STEALTH (o GRISU' che dir si voglia), MOSTRACELA IN ESCLUSIVA QUI' SU SECURITYARMS.COM!).

Foreighn armies have signed a Memorandum to follow the marketing of the definitive model, which will be shown by the development consortium by this Autumn (after some further modifications that will be based on other solutions like the ones adopted on the FN SCAR rifle), and the first operational tryouts.
---
On a side note, maybe you can take an eye to my review of the SOLDATO FUTURO "Project Phase 2", HERE.
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Old 09-18-2006
REMOV REMOV is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PT-The Italian Commie
unveiled the look of the 3rd prototype of the future Italian Army rifle
It's just a wooden mock-up not a prototype. I ask Beretta official about name of this assault rifle and he told me "AR160".
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  #6  
Old 09-18-2006
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Another wannabe G36/XM8 Rifle

If i was a defence official, I would prefer a bullpup for my troops.
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Old 09-19-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabroni
Another wannabe G36/XM8 Rifle

Not exactly. It is a standard BERETTA 70/90 working system (based on the combat-proven, tried-and-true and highly reliable "Kalashnikov" AK-47) enclosed in a polymer "shell" that makes it basically "airtight" against all external favtors that might negatively influence its operation (like mud, dust, rust, sand, water, etc.). The "modularity" is achieved by modelling the polymer stock/frame on the features of rifles like the G-36, the XM8-LAR, and the FN SCAR, which -DO- have proven to be significant improvements as for operational usefulness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabroni
If i was a defence official, I would prefer a bullpup for my troops.

Me too, but looks like we are the only ones around...

As an example, I like the layout of the American BUSHMASTER M17-S and I would like to put my hands on one and implement on it a pair of modifications that would make it suitable as a military standard assault rifle.

And I still keep on saying that the FN F-2000 is the -BEST- assault rifle currently available in the world, surpassing the HK-G36, and even the SIG SG-550 (which is the FINEST overall, its price speaks for itself).
But, I am all for single national Armed Forces have national-made firearms. And no bull-pup weapon has ever been made in Italy since the ALGIMEC AGMi sub-carbine. I had even considered what a .5'56x45mm-NATO scaled-up ALGIMEC AGMi could be, but I thought that it would mainly be useful only as a selfloading weapon, for police patrol ops, while it'd make a tad bit difficult to make it full-auto, for a series of reasons.

Anyway, one of the plans (soon to be implemented, I hope!) of the European Union is to create an unitarian European Defense Force, composed by Quick-Reaction batallions of the Armed Forces of the singular nations, which should be detached from NATO (actually it should be the first step in European quitting of NATO, and its subsequent dissolution, since it has now no longer reason to exist as a military alliance), and should be an all-European "Spearhead". They should have standardized equipments and weaponries, regardless from the provenience of each soldier. And I say that the European Defense Force should be equipped with the FN F-2000 rifle (with the BERETTA 90-TWO as standard pistol ).
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Old 09-19-2006
REMOV REMOV is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PT-The Italian Commie
Not exactly. It is a standard BERETTA 70/90 working system (...) enclosed in a polymer "shell" that makes it basically "airtight" against all external favtors
AFAIK it isn't a standard Beretta working system. The AR-160 has quick exchange barrel for instance.
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Old 09-19-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REMOV
AFAIK it isn't a standard Beretta working system. The AR-160 has quick exchange barrel for instance.

Sure. A quick exchange barrel installed on a standard Beretta 70/90 working system. Another modification is the ambidextrous cocking handle and ambidextrous brass ejection (two different ejection windows selectable by a switch), but those are all modifications of the 70/90 system. The rest remains just the way it was.
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Old 09-19-2006
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Excuse me, I had to upload my photos on another photo album …
Some images of the Beretta:
II generation prototype / mock-up:

A real g36/xm8 based gun, with plastic frame and xm8 stock.
Probably always with 70/90 "engine" inside, also if Beretta at that time said something about a "revolutionary" loading chamber to obtain a very low recoil axis and a super fast “two shot” rate of fire. But these were only working hypothesis.
The Italian Government cut off the budget to the program... so Beretta will just upgrade the "old reliable" 70/90.
However, it was designed in the "xm8 superstar" period, I suppose...

An "indirect fire" demonstration (Photo by Larimart) of the Gen. II model:

The "soldato futuro" upgrade program:
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