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  #31  
Old 09-23-2006
stealth stealth is offline
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???
Infact I NEVER said it was a sopmod gun, if not i did'nt need to DREAM one.
it's so evident they are the same model...I just wanted to propose some better images to you.
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  #32  
Old 09-23-2006
REMOV REMOV is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A653735

Quote:
The SA-80 is the standard issue weapon of the British Armed Forces, and the A1 version was introduced in 1985. Originally designed by Enfield as a mass-producable version of their experimental EM2 bullpup rifle, it was produced by Heckler and Koch after their takeover of Enfield.
It's some kind of a joke, right?
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  #33  
Old 09-23-2006
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... Originally designed by Enfield as a mass-producable version of their experimental EM2 bullpup rifle...

The EWS is not based on the EM2 ?
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  #34  
Old 09-23-2006
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Cool Hmmm, ROGER...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger
The EWS is not based on the EM2?

Okay, first of all... tell me what the "EWS" is, exactly. If it stands for "Enfield Weapons System", well, the denomination is incorrect. The correct name for the system is "SA-80 WS", where "WS" stands for "Weapons System". It consists of the IW ("Individual Weapon", the L85-A1), of the LSW ("Light Support Weapon", the L86-A1), and originally had to include also a CAR version ("Carbine", the short-barrelled L85-A1 with L86-style handguard) and an APC ultra-shorty version for crewmen (the one with even shorter barrel and foregrip). When the SA-80 Weapons System was updated to the A2 version by Heckler&Koch, they not onlu re-designed the HK-AG36 grenade launcher to attach to the L85 rifle (now L85-A2) so to give the British Armed Forces the firepower of platoon grenadiers; they also planned to start manufacture of a short L-85 version, half L85-Carbine, half L85-APC, of which the British Armed Forces in Afghanistan and Iraq were feeling the need. Mr. HOUGHTON, our British member, which we are missing around since a while, can confirm and be able to precise whether some samples have already been made and/or distributed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger
...originally designed by Enfield as a mass-producable version of their experimental EM2 bullpup rifle...

The SA-80 shares just as much similarities with the EM-2 as the CZ Vz-58 shares similarities with the AK-47. The only thing the SA-80 and the EM-2 have in common, is that them are both Bull-Pup. When the time came to replace the FAL in British service (Sterling/Enfield L1A1-SLR) with something more modern, somebody at Royal Ordnance/Enfield took a look at the archives and said "Hey, we had the EM-2, let's bring it out of the grave and make it something similar". The first thing they came out with was the XL64-E5 Individual Weapon (better picture HERE) and the XL69-E1 Light Support Weapon, both made to fire the Enfield proprietary 4'85x49mm. They had already tried to adopt a British-proprietary cartridge, back at the time of the EM-2, when they had it made in .280-British (.7x43mm); but, just like how at the time the NATO alliance had forced the Brits to go NATO-standard (.7'62x51mm), this time the same thing happened and the Brits had to re-design the XL64-E5 Individual Weapon to fire the .5'56x45mm-NATO cartridge (the thus-converted prototype was called XL70-E3). Also remember: the EM-2 rifle , as clearly stated on Mr. Maxim Popenker's WORLD.GUNS.RU website page about it, has nothing in common with the L-85 except for the fact of being Bull-Pup. The EM-2 has an "all-new" working system. The L-85 is a (badly) bull-puped AR-18.
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  #35  
Old 09-24-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger
...originally designed by Enfield as a mass-producable version of their experimental EM2 bullpup rifle...
I never posted that, it was in the Website from the link that I had posted.
I posted:
...Designed by target shooters, the SA-80 A1 was the second most accurate assault rifle on the planet (the most accurate is the Sig 552) and the A2 design is supposedly more accurate still. Its bullpup design1 makes it possible to have a longer barrel and a shorter overall weapon length, making it both more accurate and a lot less unwieldy...
and:
The EWS is not based on the EM2 ?

Pierangelo can you please translate these infos extracted from a french brochure ?
"... L'expérience acquise avec la mise au point du EM-2 permit, toutefois, aux Britanniques de projeter et de réaliser plusieurs années plus tard le EWS, l' Enfield Weapon System, c'est à dire le système d'armes Enfield en calibre 5,56mm OTAN, ou SA-80 dans la nomenclature militaire britannique..."
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  #36  
Old 09-24-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger
Pierangelo can you please translate these infos extracted from a french brochure ?
"... L'expérience acquise avec la mise au point du EM-2 permit, toutefois, aux Britanniques de projeter et de réaliser plusieurs années plus tard le EWS, l' Enfield Weapon System, c'est à dire le système d'armes Enfield en calibre 5,56mm OTAN, ou SA-80 dans la nomenclature militaire britannique..."

It says:
"The experience acquired by the engineering of the EM-2 has anyway allowed the Brits to conceive and realize, several years later, the "EWS", the "Enfield Weapons System" in .5'56mm-NATO caliber, also known as SA-80 in its British military nomenclature".

It has some imperfections. True, the L-85 was patterned after the EM-2, but only for the fact of being bull-pup. Otherwise, it's a completely different weapon.
"SA-80" is not its "British military nomenclature", it is the developmental nomenclature which is now currently used, even by the British military, to indicate the entire weapons system. "SA-80" means "Small Arms system for the 1980s". All post-WW2 "British military nomenclatures" start with the "L" letter, like the "L2-A3" and "L34-A1" (Sterling-Patchett machine-carbine, standard and integrally sound-suppressed), the "L42-A1" (Enfield "Enforcer" SMLE-based .7'62x51mm bolt-action sniper rifle, used by British police and military before the adoption of the Accuracy International AW "Arctic Warfare", which is known in British service as the "L96-A1" and "L118-A1" in its improved version, the "AWM"), the "L1A1-SLR" (British FAL version) and finally the "L85-A1/A2" assault rifles and "L86-A1/A2" light support weapons, and the "L98-A1" General-Purposes Cadet Rifle.
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  #37  
Old 09-24-2006
REMOV REMOV is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PT-The Italian Commie
Okay, first of all... tell me what the "EWS" is, exactly. If it stands for "Enfield Weapons System"
The EWS is a program formulated in 1970. 1970-1972 Preliminary Study, 1972-1974 Feasiblity Study, during the last first 12 weapons were created: 4.85mm IW (001-006), 5.56mm IW (007), 4.85mm + 40mm UGL (008) and 4.85mm LSW (009-012). Than the name has changed to the "4.85 Weapon System". In october 1980 after the adoption of the 5.56mm x 45 (SS109) round as the NATO standard, the name was changed to the "Small Arms for the 1980s" or SA80.
Quote:
The SA-80 shares just as much similarities with the EM-2 as the CZ Vz-58 shares similarities with the AK-47.
Far less, the AK and the vz.58 share the same ammuniton the SA80 and EM2 - not.
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  #38  
Old 09-24-2006
huws huws is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth
Have you got any news / photo about the new version of the Beretta AR prototype for the "soldato futuro" program?
Here the well-known photo of the mockup:

this is the official design, from my photoalbum:

Somebody has images??
Thanks, sorry for my english...

D oes it defeat HUWS?
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