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  #1  
Old 09-19-2006
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Angry Apparently the Islamofascists are at it again...!

Now, I guess you have heard the news lately, otherwise you can link up HERE and follow back the events. The Pope has made a speech at the University of Bavaria, quoting a middle-ages text that has offended the Muslims. Which, understandibly, have protested. But while some of them have done it with wise moderation, and some others have tried to lay a hand to distention, others have left themselves go to acts of violence, including incendiary attacks to churches in Palestine and the killing of an Italian nun in Mogadishu, Somalia.
The Pope's excuses (pretty lame-ass, if you ask me) have failed in making the anger cease. Lately, some of the worst statements, made by an Iraqi extremists council, says that "Islam will march over Rome, like promised by the Prophet, and will break the Cross and the Pope will cry, and then you will only have two choice: Islam or sword (death)".

Now, I do NOT like the Church, the Catholicism or the Christianship in general. Damn, I like NO religions at all. Them are stupid and pointless in the modern world. More specifically, I don't like the usual Catholic Church's claims to have the right to decide on the internal affairs of the nations, on themes like abortion, devorce, artificial insemination, genetic research, etc. They can all go to hell, if it exists (and I bet my ass it doesn't). I do not like the POPE: he is a well-known extremist, an integrist not less than Osama Bin Laden, a recognized racist, and has been a member of the Hitlerjugend.

But this does NOT means that I have sympathies for the Muslim extremists either. When they say that they will "conquer Rome" they are not making me an offence as a member of a religion whose "center" is in Rome, because I am NOT a member of that religion. They are offending me because I am a PROUD CITIZEN OF A COUNTRY WHOSE CAPITAL IS THE CITY OF ROME. When they say that they will "conquer Rome", they are saying to me that they will ATTACK MY COUNTRY and rid it by force, destroying all the principles of freedom, egality and democracy upon which my Country is founded, and in which I believe, to replace it with a teocracy (and no matter on WHICH religion it is based: teocracy is ALWAYS bad because it is denial of democracy and freedom of choice).

NOT UNTIL I AM ALIVE, you motherfuckers. BRING IT ON, I am waiting.

They say that they will force us to accept Islam under menace of death. Well, I am NOT accepting Islam much like I am NOT accepting Christianship, Buddhism, Taoism or any other religion around, let alone BY FORCE.

No matter how fast they can run. Let them attack my Country. I'll be embracing something loaded with 30 up to 200 little friends that will run faster than them.
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Old 09-19-2006
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Default Heh!

Too late, sucker.

You morons vilified Orianna Fallaci, and it shows how bent your moral compass has become.

God rest Miss Falacci, and God forgive Italy.
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Old 09-19-2006
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I've distrusted Ratzinger from the first pic I saw of him. His choice of a medieval papal name is telling, as is his statements regarding having a smaller, more committed church. (Guess what that meant when the medieval pope he named himself for talked about such things?) He was Hitler Jugend, and it's stupid but Sgt. Fury and the Howling Commandoes called the nazis... ratzis. Funny coincidence.

That said, he was actually making an honest point about the contradiction of faith through violence. It is very telling that in response to a centuries old accusation that Islam spreads faith through violence, a number of Islamists have responded to this vile lie by saying they will spread their faith through violence. Ummm... wasn't Ratzinger trying to make a point about belief involving reason? Does ANYONE in the Islamic world realize that a harsh reaction to the Pope's statements proves him right
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Old 09-19-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCoyote
I've distrusted Ratzinger from the first pic I saw of him. His choice of a medieval papal name is telling, as is his statements regarding having a smaller, more committed church. (Guess what that meant when the medieval pope he named himself for talked about such things?) He was Hitler Jugend, and it's stupid but Sgt. Fury and the Howling Commandoes called the nazis... ratzis. Funny coincidence.

Roger that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCoyote
That said, he was actually making an honest point about the contradiction of faith through violence. It is very telling that in response to a centuries old accusation that Islam spreads faith through violence, a number of Islamists have responded to this vile lie by saying they will spread their faith through violence.


Yes, but don't forget that also Christianship has an history of "spreading faith through violence". Words "Crusades", "Witch Hunt", "Inquisition" ring any bell? I seriously hope so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCoyote
Ummm... wasn't Ratzinger trying to make a point about belief involving reason?

If you want my two cents, Pope Ratzy knew since the very beginning that such expressions would have pissed off a lot of violent people, and did it INTENTIONALLY to PROVOKE such reactions. Which are NOT GOOD, okay, but provoking them isn't good either. The Pope is between the top ones to have all to gain and very little to loose in a clash between civilizations and religions. Remember: he is the chief of the CATHOLIC Church. "Catholic" is from ancient Greek, and means "Universal". The name says it all: the "Catholic" Church is founded upon the self-belief of being the only one with the revealed truth (a feature that it shares with A LOT of other organized religions, after all... ), and much like radical Islam, regardless of any "sign of distention and dialogue", it has very little consideration for non-believers and for believers of other religions. A clash between civilizations and religions, caused by his statement, would only give to the Catholic Church in general, and to Ratzinger personally, just some more points: in their mind, they would show just how "barbaric" the "others" are, and would adfirm the superiority of the Catholicism in confrontation with all other religions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCoyote
Does ANYONE in the Islamic world realize that a harsh reaction to the Pope's statements proves him right

Hmmm, NO, I don't think so. Not only the Muslims don't realize it; but not even a "Westerner" like me does. As I stated above, I am firmly persuaded of the fact that Ratzinger has deliberately made such a speech to cause a reaction in the radical/fundamentalist Islamic mob.

Yet, if he is wrong, and sure he -IS- dead wrong, the Islamic fundamentalists are even WRONGER. Now that I made some researches, I can adfirm for sure that the statements that "The army of Islam will conquer Rome as promised by the Prophet", and all that shit, was made by an organization called the "Council of the Mujaheddins", an Iraqi-based extremist/terrorist group that merged into Al-Qaeda up recently. You will understand, them are not EXACTLY what I call "moderate interlocutors"...

Nonetheless, when they menace to burn down Rome, I get pissed off NOT because they are menacing to burn down the heart of Christianship (I couldn't give a shit less); but because they are menacing to burn down the CAPITAL CITY OF MY COUNTRY, which is based on Constitutional principles that I share and admire and am faithful to, and which I am willing to protect with my own life if necessary.

Now, basically, I -DO- respect Muslims. I really do. I have my ideas about the current world situation, and that's it: you think it is a clash of civilizations? It's NOT. The religion, and all that shit, is only a "façade". The point is that on THAT side there is the Third World, an impressive number of poor people with nothing to loose and conscious of the fact that the Western World founds its wellness and opulence on the over-exploitment of the (poor) world resources. On the OTHER side ("our" side, or so it should be) there is the "Western World", a very rich minority who KNOWS VERY WELL what they have done to the planet in the last 60/100 years and what they are still doing to, but which is NOT WILLING to give away not one single little bit of its opulence, which wants MORE AND MORE, even should this make necessary the slaughter of billions. THIS is what we are facing, and I am not sure that I'd want, or like, to be on "our" side.

But menaces to my home Country, that's a whole another story. As for the current situation, Italy is much more a "Non-Aligned" Country, with the new Government heavily engaged in diplomacy efforts to help the cause of PEACE between the two "civilizations" or "worlds" or however you want to call them. This does not means that we will droop our heads to an attack against the unity and the independence of our Country. I'll be the first to grab a gun if an army of Islamo-Fascists attacks Italy.
And the best is, I known a number of Muslims living in Italy that are ready to do the same as well.

P.S.: I don't know what Bacon Guy thinks that I am, an idiot or some thing. I thought he had read the writing on the wall. He is on my PERMANENT IGNORE LIST. I do not read his messages. He can spare himself the bothering to reply to my posts. Them are not for him, and I will not read his replies.
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"It is criminal to teach a man not to defend himself, when he is the constant victim of brutal attacks. It is legal and lawful to own a shotgun or a rifle. We believe in obeying the law." -- Malcolm X

"We (atheists) act in good conscience because we believe in moral principles, not because we expect a reward in Heaven." -- Margherita Hack

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  #5  
Old 09-19-2006
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PT, you have my sympathy for the attack on the hospital in Mogadishu, the death of a noncombatant female, especially one who had dedicated her life to helping others, is a tragedy, and a warcrime.

While we disagree a great deal on matters of religion, I know we can both agree that no group has a right to force others to believe in any ideal. Doing so by violence is even worse.

There are groups in the Islamic world, large and powerful groups, who wish to do exactly that. They wish to see Rome captured and sacked by their followers, and with it Paris, London, Dublin, Bern, Brussels, Madrid, Lisbon, Berlin, Warsaw, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Bucharest, Vienna, Canberra, Athens, Jerusalem, Washington, New York and Ottawa.

I think their ability to do exactly that is far more realistic than we would like to admit.

We must stand together against it, or we may yet again repeat the fate that befell Constantinople and the Byzantine empire, plunging the western world into a second dark age.

You have my promise of full support should your nation ever face a realization of the threats Islamic Fascists have made against you.

I hope you will return the favor.
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Old 09-19-2006
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Default Amen

Me and PT have fought alot over the years. But I will personally dig into the trenches with him when the time comes. The time is at hand fellows. WW3 is coming. Myself and my fiance are both in the Army, and everyday I wake up to this dark new reality. I will see war before I die and I'll see it first hand. My only hope is that it will be in the mid east and not in Italy or the Americas. It's pretty sad that this is my only realistic hope at this point in my life.

The house in the country filled with joy and little children is still my dream. But there will be alot of uglyness before that day comes.
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Old 09-19-2006
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Default D, I wouldn't be so sure.

PT is not your friend or even ally.

His thinly-veiled disgust at the very philosophical underpinnings of our entire society tell me that at best, he would be an ally of strict opportunity who would turn on you in a heartbeat once you outlived your utility to the great commie project.

Remember, this is a guy who feels religions (all of them equally, of course!) are at the heart of all mankind's woes. He thinks the pope started this deliberately- for who only know what silly reason, in his salon-radical's mind. The simple-minded fucknozzle obviously needs to be reminded -again- that it was the catholic church that helped Solidarnosc liberate Poland from communism, and NOT the other way around. In his Orwellian little dipshit world, it's reversed- it's noble commies who liberate the proles from the predatory grip of religion. Hah...tell us another side-splitter, Comrade.

This is the moron who ignores me as though I did something to HIM.

I say fuck Europe, Italy, and especially people like PT who have done their damndest to shame and silence people like Oriana Fallaci on purely reactionary and ideological bases. Don't forget that after 1967, it was Soviet communists that transformed Arab Judenhass into the modern form it now takes, by infecting it with all the class-struggle bullshit mindlessly regurgutated by asshats like PT. Long live the peoples' liberation movement, eh Comrade? They're still trying, out of unabated hatred for the success of Western materialism, to destroy us. They'll even get in bed with their own enemies if need be.

This time, when the flood of refugees comes from Europistan, we should charge admittance, and only admit those with something to offer. Undesirables, such as communists, should be pointedly excluded.
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Old 09-19-2006
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Default Yeah but...

I can't hate the kid. I say kid because, ten years ago I was just like him. I too was a salon radical who believed that mankind was inherently good. That all people had some type of inner beauty, and that all the worlds ills would one day be cured by an international socialist revolution. But as I grew older I realised that some men do evil because some men are evil. I realised that socialism/communism fails because people will want more, and people do not want to be dictated and told who and or what to believe in. I realised that this grand idea of "the state" or utopia that I had dreamed about was a farce and a fairy tale at best. And at the end of my journey I realised that my government is far from perfect, but my country has given me every opportunity and comfort I've ever known. I live my life by two documents. The Holy Bible and the constitution. I am what I am and I've come to accept it. Yes there have been Marxists who have honestly tried to make a difference. They usually get an ice axe to the skull for their efforts, or are forgetten amidst the twisted lies and propoganda of their "comrades".

My two cents, take it or leave it.
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Old 09-20-2006
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Default Well let me tell you all straight out.

You've read my opinions on certain international crises, most notably Lebanon.

It's no secret that I have a distinctly detached view on international matters (in layman's terms, I'm a self centered cold hearted bastard that wouldn't mind at all seeing a few villages full of innocent Arabs, Palestinians and Persians wiped off the map if it means not risking the lives of soldiers that happen to have been trained by my tax money).

I'm pretty sure I'm more evil than good.



But at least I'm on your side.
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Old 09-20-2006
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Default But D...

How can you have any quarter for someone- an adult, mind you- who has had all the benefits (without a single cost) of the system he so strenuously decries? Judeo-Christian tradition affords him the very intellectual tools he uses to defame it. In his comtempt for modern American conservative Christians (really, just President Bush), he smears all religions as equally harmful to mankind.

It can't be simple naivite at this age, and at this late date in history. There is something beyond mere pathology in someone who yearns to chop off the very hand that feeds them. He can't deny the hundreds of millions of dead due to his evil ideology. He can't deny his own antisemitism (in the sense of anti-Israel bias). PT is doubtlessly someone who puts on his best face towards us over a common interest, but plainly holds us in high contempt. Funny thing about communism, is that it has a miserable record with regards to the new sacred cows of modern leftists- specifically women and gays.

I can't indulge people like him, much less defend them.
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If you can't beat them, join them. Then beat them. Barring that, arrange to have them beaten.

Last edited by Bacon Guy : 09-20-2006 at 05:22 AM.
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