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  #1  
Old 09-19-2006
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Thumbs up For Russian Weapons Lovers

3 galleries with great pictures about Russian weapons, you can download them in hi-resolution.

http://picasaweb.google.com/HerrKoT/Vvc2006 (modern weapons...)
http://picasaweb.google.com/HerrKoT/2006 (prototypes from Museum...)
http://picasaweb.google.com/HerrKoT/Unnamed (tanks)

http://talks.guns.ru/forums/icons/fo...443/443725.jpg



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Old 09-19-2006
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Wow. Stuff I'd love to raid or at least rip off for sci-fi. And what is with the 3 barrels in that 3rd pic? Does Toebanger have some former Soviet relatives?
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Old 09-19-2006
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PT-The Italian Commie PT-The Italian Commie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCoyote
And what is with the 3 barrels in that 3rd pic? Does Toebanger have some former Soviet relatives?

I see the magazine is quite "fat". I suppose it is 3-column, 3-stack magazine that introduces one cartridge to each chamber, and that the gun has 3 chambers for 3 barrels and 3 different working systems all together in the same gun, operated via the same trigger.

Such a layout would pose an enormous amount of problems anyway, last but not least the reliability. And, what about the ejection? I mean, there -MUST- be a reason why it is just a prototype...
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Old 09-19-2006
Grenadier Toebanger Grenadier Toebanger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger


Wey Hey!, Ripper Guns do finally exist!

But it still seems to have separate magazines, I want it BELT FED.

Still sticking to the 'Ripper Gun/Handheld Nordenfelt' idea though.

Nice collection of guns, Id like to see more of them.
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Old 09-19-2006
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PT-The Italian Commie PT-The Italian Commie is offline
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Thumbs down Look, Grenadier...

I repeat, if that weapon stuck to prototype phase only, there -MUST- be a reason. And such a layout presents way too much reliability, feeding, working system and spent cases ejection issues and possible flaws to be viable in any way.

At least, to your happiness, this tells you that it is possible in some way. You want one belt-fed? I think that the only way would be to pick up something similar and make it belt-feeding. But being it feeding from 3 different magazines, a belt-fed version could only be fed by 3 different belts. Which would obviously make it NOT man-portable in any way.
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Old 09-19-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PT-The Italian Commie
I see the magazine is quite "fat". I suppose it is 3-column, 3-stack magazine that introduces one cartridge to each chamber, and that the gun has 3 chambers for 3 barrels and 3 different working systems all together in the same gun, operated via the same trigger.

Such a layout would pose an enormous amount of problems anyway, last but not least the reliability. And, what about the ejection? I mean, there -MUST- be a reason why it is just a prototype...
This is conjecture but... I think the cases ejected downwards. See the long stock behind the BULLPUP design? It looks like the bolt/bolts traveled back past the magazine to eject their cases downward there, and then resumed forward to chamber. I think it's a long bolt travel.

Also, if it was designed right, it might have improved reliability. If 3 rounds go off at once, which I think is how it worked... (notice what looks like a single gas system?) then if any single round failed the other 2 could complete the cycle and push it on through. The long bolt travel could server as a buffer to prevent wear from 3 rounds all working while leaving the potential for 2 rounds to cycle, PLUS it could knock the recoil down a notch for the user.

Ultimately though, the thing looks like its length of pull is too long to be comfortable.
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Old 09-19-2006
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Arrow

Another album called "Tula" (100 photos):
http://picasaweb.google.com/HerrKoT/Tula16092006

http://picasaweb.google.com/HerrKoT/...79513817956370
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Old 09-19-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCoyote
This is conjecture but... I think the cases ejected downwards. See the long stock behind the BULLPUP design? It looks like the bolt/bolts traveled back past the magazine to eject their cases downward there, and then resumed forward to chamber. I think it's a long bolt travel.

Yes, I understand the concept, and believe it or not, I like it.



This weapon is the MC-R "Modular Caseless Rifle" prototype by CRYE ASSOCIATES. I like its look and design, and I think it would be a great entry in any Armed Forces' arsenal. Yet, I don't like the fact that it is made to fire CASELESS ammunitions. Too much problems of reliability, from feeding to possible cook-off, and I think that the way to look for is the ol'good' cased ammo, at least for the next 100 years. That's why I started to think that, hey, maybe reverse-engineering the MC-R from a "Modular Caseless Rifle" to a "Modular COMBAT Rifle", using standard cased, readily available, very widespread ammunitions, and relative magazines, would boost the operational readiness of the weapon and make it a great hit for the current military operations.

My opinion is that such a Modular Combat Rifle should fire the .7'62x51mm-NATO cartridge, taking the 30-rounds magazines made for the FN FAL by the Belgians, for the L1A1-SLR by the British, and still being made in the USA by DS-ARMS for their SA-58 rifles series (at least, for the "Mini-OSW" selective-fire carbine offered for Military/LE). And that' was the system I thought to implement: the bolt travels back to "grab" a round from the magazine, "hooks" it and "drives" it to the chamber. When the round is fired, the bolt travels back again, and a certain amount of the gas generated by the shot is "pumped" to push the case back from the chamber one bit. Finding itself in the void, the case falls down by its own weight and is ejected from the downside-placed ejection window, while the bolt "grabs" and "hooks" another cartridge and "drives" it to the chamber for a second shot. This all, in a good fire repetition in semi-automatic fire (a skilled user should be able to fire at least 2 rounds per sec. in semi-auto, highly-trained personnel shall have their rifles with lightened trigger to fire at least 3 rounds per sec.), a fairly controllable cyclic rate of 600 Rounds Per Minute in full-autofire and about 100/1200 RPM when firing in controlled burst mode (2-rounds or 3-rounds: the last round is out of the barrel before the shooter can feel the recoil of the FIRST shot, so that recoil does not afflicts the accuracy, much like in the Nikonov/Abakan AN-94, and in the HK-G11, one of the few good features of that weapon).
Being the ejection downwards, the cocking handle and the fire selector controls placed ambidextrously, the Crye MC-R retrofitted as such is readily employable by all users.
A mercury recoil dampener (something seen at a SHOT Show of some time ago in a .50-BMG pistol, see them HERE, HERE and HERE, ) should do the rest as for kick reducing. And all these rails on the frame and on the top should provide the weapon all the "Modularity" it needs to be a viable, future military combat rifle. Sure, it would represent a drawback to .7'62x51mm-NATO; but military operations in the present and in the recent past have demonstrated that the currently-used .5'56x45mm-NATO loads (I repeat, the CURRENTLY-USED MILITARY LOADS) severely lack stopping power (I still say that .5'56x45mm-NATO would be a helluva manstopper, if they'd be allowed to use frangible ammunitions). Many of yours think that it'd be time to shift to, so to speak, .6'8x43mm-SPC Remington Cartridge, or .6'5mm/.26 Grendel; but let me object that the .7'62x51mm still has range, accuracy and stopping power to spare; that its overpenetration problems can be fixed with the use of the right ammunitions; and that, differently from .6'8mm-SPC or .6'5-Grendel, it is already available in huge quantities.
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Last edited by PT-The Italian Commie : 09-19-2006 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 09-19-2006
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I have another idea that hit me about the 3 barrel. I'm looking at the magazine and it is a single large... thing. ButI guess that was necessary to get the barrels close. Anyway.

Perhaps it was a SAW concept? Perhaps each barrel was designed to fire individually until its partition in the magazine was empty. Then when that part was empty it clicked over to the next barrel. This way, each barrel got time to cool down between shooting because each wouldn't shoot more than 30 (or perhaps 25) rounds. In that way, "no need" for a quick change barrel, and in the long run, less barrels used up but still having decent sustained fire. I can see problems with the idea, but it's compelling enough to be worth researching.
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Old 09-19-2006
REMOV REMOV is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCoyote
And what is with the 3 barrels in that 3rd pic?
This is Pribor-3B, Russian answer to the American SALVO project (multibarrel rifle).



Compare to this:

Springfield Armory three-barrel SALVO rifle mock-up
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Last edited by REMOV : 09-20-2006 at 02:57 AM.
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